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Modules Polished, Refinished, Remastered, or just done well :)

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RolledOats
Modules Polished, Refinished, Remastered, or just done well :)

Hey guys...finally decided to post, been coming here for a very long time. I'm a little frustrated with the NWN module community at the moment, and the reason may seem a little snobby, but I've just gotta get this out and see if anyone else shares the way I feel about this...and maybe someone has some suggestions for me.

There are so many good NWN and NWN 2 modules out there, and I've played what many consider to be the best for both games...but there's one thing that just completely kills the experience for me: Bad grammar/Bad spelling. Typos left and right, incorrect capitalization, randopm commas, you name it!

A LOT of the "best modules" I've played are plagued by this problem, and it just completely kills the ability for me to enjoy the module. It kills the immersion for me. So far, the only mod I've played that floored me was Harp and Chrysanthemum. Kudos for that one. I tried to play through pool of radiance remastered and Risen Hero over the past couple of days...and I just can't do it. I can't take it seriously with so many grammatical problems.

Anyway, I wanted to ask you guys if you knew of any really good modules that don't suffer from this problem. I've searched high and low and I really, really want to play some modules that I can get some immersion from. All the grammar problems and spelling issues just destroy the ability to be "in character" for me. Please let me know you guys' personal favourites, if you feel the same way I do about all this!

Oh, and I just want to say, the modules I've mentioned were fun in every other way than the problems I've mentioned. I could really enjoy them without the syntax issues, and I do want to give credit where credit is due for the actual module development/scripting/etc.

 

Thanks guys!

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Tarot Redhand

Deja Vu. We have been here before. Have you read this from the old ign vault? Or this reply to it? Complaining about the spelling is all well and good but what if the module creator's first language isn't English or god forbid uses American spelling like the spellchecker built into these threads (dang thing didn't even recognise isn't, don't or even the word recognise itself). You have a certain amount of legitimacy complaining about spelling in NwN2 as there is this spellchecker and this other spellchecker that can be used. NwN has no such tool available. There was one a few years ago but it relied on a truly ancient version of MS Office.

So what I am saying is cut some slack or better yet add to everyone's enjoyment and build your own module.

TR

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rjshae

Or you could take an unfinished module and finish/polish it up.

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andysks

Well I am not a native English speaker but try my best to eliminate most of the typos that might exist in my campaign. But because of the fact that English is not my first language I had to make some choices about what I find important. For example I don't mind if I use random commas. So I leave them be. However things like starting sentences with no capital letter or wrong spelling has to go.

 

But as the others say, you have to cut the modders some slack. As long as the typos are not on every sentence at least. 

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kamal

You can also report typos and such via private message to the author. This eliminates public confrontation if the author takes it as criticism. Also try not to be critical in tone when doing this, while most authors probably appreciate the private notice, not everyone will always like it.

 

Also remember that as far as grammatical mistakes in character conversations go, real people make grammatical mistakes too. All characters in a game having perfect grammar is unrealistic, especially from those stinky orcs and rural bumpkin farmers with kobold problems, an author may have purposefully given a character intentionally less than perfect grammar.

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FaerzressSparkles

Wow. I agree with the other guys when they say not to attack the person publicly. A nice email about it may be appreciated.

Also, here are some commas for you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :P

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travus

I've played a lot of mods. Pretty much every one of them had a spelling or grammar error somewhere. That never stopped me from playing a very enjoyable game. I know how much time and effort the modders put into making an adventure for free. For that alone, they deserve some respect.

But, on the other side of the coin, there is a difference between "Let's eat, kids!" and "Let's eat kids!" A simple comma can make the difference between life and death :) 

NWN2 Mod playthroughs    www.youtube.com/user/AhTravesty

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Tarot Redhand

Like the apocryphal Panda that enters a restaurant and eats a meal of bamboo shoots. The panda then gets up, pulls out a gun and kills the owner. When later questioned about it the Panda points to the entry on Wikipedia - Panda: Eats, Shoots and Leaves... I've actually got an audio book of it somewhere. It was a best seller at one point.

TR

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TheBarbarian
Typos left and right, incorrect capitalization, randopm commas, you name it!
 
;-)
 
While there's nothing wrong with having personal preferences, it might be in your long-term interests to use this kind of thing to desensitize yourself to spelling mistakes. You are going to continue encountering those throughout life, no matter where you go, and risk alienating large amounts of good, helpful, knowledgeable people if you make a habit of thematizing it too strongly.
 
In any field, there's people who are so terrified of being thought of as incompetent that they spend more time trying to maintain their reputation than actually working (be it through mere posturing or through outright scheming manipulation of their colleagues and working environment), as well as people who are mostly interested in getting the actual work done and find posturing and rankfighting to be an annoying distraction. Both types, while learning their craft, have made scores of mistakes. The latter, being capable of acknowledging that they have made and still continue to make mistakes to this very day, are generally more forgiving towards the mistakes of others and seldom look positively upon unconstructive criticism. I'd recommend aiming to be on good footing with the latter, as they actually get shit done and aren't as prone to backstabbing others for their own advancement.
 
It's good to be able to hold your own in the playing field of elitism, including but not limited to grammar snobbery - if you appear incapable of defending yourself, douchebags may view you (and the people you protect!) as an easy target. But don't internalize this shit, and while cultivating some degree of perfectionism, don't go for "fear and contempt of imperfection". Go for "love and appreciation of perfection". That's one of the important differences between adaptive and maladaptive perfectionism. Work for things (and people, and ideals) you hold dear, not just against things (and people, and ideals) you despise.
 
Holier-than-thou unrequited life advice bullshitting aside, to answer your actual question, I've recently been very impressed with ABJECT_SELF's writing in The Avid & Apathy. It's an unfinished, ongoing project. I'm sure ABJECT_SELF would be happy about more reviews (though I'd hope any such reviews would be about more than just his/her/its grammar).
 
Also, Proleric's Dark Energy and Andarian's Sanctum of the Archmage, if you haven't played them yet.
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RolledOats

Um, I feel that my original post was somewhat misinterpereted by a few here :) In no way was any of the content meant to attack or call out anyone in specific, while I can see why it may have come off that way. I appreciate all the hard work put into the modules on the vault, and I'm not a module-creator, so I'm not claiming I can do better than anyone else. I was just looking for some suggestions on some mods that might fit the description I put down.

You make a good point about non-native speakers. I didn't mean to say any of the stuff was bad quality; in fact, I pointed out my requirements are pretty snobby :) And I have enjoyed the mods, I'd just like to find some that are more RP-heavy and "of high grammatical quality." So, like I said, the post was in no way meant to put down or attack anyone and I'd hate for anyone to take it that way.

While I'm no scripter/programmer, I would be interested in cleaning mods up and reposting refinished versions on the site. Specifically Pool of Radiance, as I think with some dialogue tweaks it could be an exceptional module. I don't have any idea how to go about it, though. Do you need permission from anyone to do that kind of thing? Or is it OK to just pull out the toolset, fix it all up, and repost it on the site? Let me know and I will start to work on it. I already had this in mind but wasn't sure of the proper way to do it.

I'm a proofreader and copywriter in real life. I'm sure that can shed some light on why this particular issue stood out to me ;)

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TheBarbarian
Check the project pages for the "Permissions & Licensing" section to see what may or may not be done with a particular project.
 
Keep in mind that a lot of the content on the Vault has been ported over from the old IGN Vault when it went down, and not all of the authors explicitly stated that their work may be modified, though. There's no way for any of us here to guarantee you that you will never inadvertently step on somebody's toes if you start putting up edited versions of things.
 
That said, this is a modding community. Modifying other people's work is what we do. Should somebody be offended, it won't be the end of the world, and there'll be mediating voices in the ensuing debate.
 
So - yes. Go for it; if the files're free to modify and redistribute, go play with 'em and have fun. Just TNTBAJ (DBAJ is just impossible for humans). Lots of people go through schooling systems that sort people into "worth existing" and "you're a failure and will never amount to anything" based on (among other things) their degree of literacy at a very young age already, and are understandably sensitive about it. If you're basically going around offering professional proofreading, for free, out of your own time, though... well, it shouldn't be too hard to sell that.
 
Take a look at the Conduct and Guidelines sections under About in the navigation menu, too. They might do away with some uncertainties.
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RolledOats

Thanks, Barbarian....so let's shift the mood of this topic then. I'm going to start working on a polished version of 'Pool of Radiance Remastered'. If anyone else is working on mods and needs a grammar/language/spelling consultant, please get with me and I will be happy to help. I've used the Vault for years and would love to finally contribute to the community.

--Rolled

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Phybrizo

RolledOats, I send you a PM, I'm interested in your skills in the language of Shakespeare.

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RolledOats

PM sent your way. Glad to offer help here and look forward to working with you :)

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GCoyote

I think that's a very constructive way to approach the issue.  I spent a few years writing requirements, test cases, and technical documentation. Took me a few more years to exorcise my inner grammar Nazi.  The most effective communication speaks to the community, not to an abstract standard. 

Best of luck with your new project and don't hesitate to ask for help in one of the sub-forums if you have trouble with the toolset. 

<b>"Please VOTE on the content you play."</b>

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Grog

Great attitude, OP - I'm exactly the same as you (if a mod has line-by-line technical issues with its writing, I really struggle to appreciate the quality of story going on beneath) so I really get where you're coming from, and it's definitely appreciated that you're putting your talents to use by polishing what's already out there.

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