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Kaedrin's Pack and Modules - Compatibility List

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rjshae
Kaedrin's Pack and Modules - Compatibility List

 

 Arkalezth


If someone doesn't know it:



Kaedrin's PrC Pack



Kaedrin's pack adds a lot of things to the game, not only new classes, feats and spells, but also fixes lots of bugs. Many people consider it a must-have, even if not making use of the custom content.



However, many single player modules aren't compatible with it. Apart from encouraging module builders to make their modules compatible, I'd like to make a list with the compatible and incompatible modules.



My knowledge of the toolset is, at best, very limited, so I need help to make the list. If you know about the compatibility of a module, please tell.



Compatible Modules



A Fairy Tale

Against the Cult of the Reptile God

Battle of the Builds, version 1.23.1

Betrayal

Edinmoor

FRW Character Creator

Icewind Dale

Isle of Shrines

Legacy of White Plume Mountain

Mask of the Betrayer

Moonshadows

Nihil Trilogy: Awakening

Nihil Trilogy II-Chains of Misfortune

OC

Path of Evil

Risen Hero

Ruins of the Sun God

Seasonal NWN2 Egg Hunt Game

Serene

Shadow Thief: Crimmor (not yet released)

Shaar Moan

Sheep and Stone

Shrouded Sun

Storm of Zehir

Subtlety of Thay

The Caravan Club

The Corruption of Kiahoro

The Dana'an Unvanquished

The Halls of Hamhock

The Last Days of the Raven

The Last of the Danaan

The Wizard's Apprentice 2

These Dark Days of Waiting

Thesk - Adventurers in Mosshold

Traveller

Trial and Terror (works with Kaedrin's version 1.33)

Trinity

Vordan's Hero Creator



Incompatible Modules



Conan Chronicles 1 - The Barbarian Chronicles

Fallen House Celofraie

Harp & Chrysanthemum

Islander

JEGs Training module

Misery Stone

Mithdradates' Hall of Training

MotB Makeover SoZ Edition

Mysteries of Westgate

OC Makeover SoZ Edition

The Maimed God's Saga



I've played some other modules, but I'm not sure of their compatibility. I'll edit the original post as (if) the list grows bigger.



If someone plans on playing a module and (s)he's not sure about the compatibility, this could be a good place to ask.



I'd also like to ask module builders to state in their modules' descriptions if they're compatible, or if there can be some sort of conflict.



I'll only post modules which compatibility or lack of has been proved or specifically mentioned by authors or players. There is a whole lot of modules out there, but I have no clue on their possible compatibility.

 

 nicethugbert


To add, it's easy to make your module compatible with Kaedrin's: http://nwn2customcon...ll-instructions



It also has custom armors and let's you craft missle ammo and monk gloves. There is a reason why it has 9.95 score with 193 votes. 

 

 Gilradthegreat


Also to add, if you are going to make your mod compatible, CHECK YOUR 2DAs! :)



Particularly spells.2da, as issues with 2da conflicts generally aren't all that visible so its easy to assume everything's working fine after a cursory glance. In my experience a broken spells.2da usually breaks reserve feats and custom spells (I've run into more than a few mods that have partial Kaedrin support, if you haven't guessed) 

 

 PJ156



Quote

Gilradthegreat wrote...



Also to add, if you are going to make your mod compatible, CHECK YOUR 2DAs! :)



Particularly spells.2da, as issues with 2da conflicts generally aren't all that visible so its easy to assume everything's working fine after a cursory glance. In my experience a broken spells.2da usually breaks reserve feats and custom spells (I've run into more than a few mods that have partial Kaedrin support, if you haven't guessed)



To expand on this can I ask.



If I have made no modification to the basic toolset in my mod except to add a few screens and a couple of music files will adding this pack cause conflict? Where would the spell 2Da conflict come in and how would I set about troubleshooting such a problem?



PJ 

 

 M. Rieder


I really want Kaedrin's to work with The Wizard's Apprentice II. I am hoping to get through development without messing with feats, spells, class .2da files. I have modified my placeables .2da, but that shouldn't be a problem, right. It seems like it shouldnt. 

 

 Arkalezth


I assume the first one isn't compatible then (to add it to the list)?



Can someone answer PJ's question? I don't know much about 2das and the like, that's why I never know if a module is compatible or not, unless it's specifically mentioned. 

 

 Gilradthegreat


iirc, I think spells.2da is the only one modified, but if you want to be certain you could download Kaedrin's pack and root around for any other 2da files. If you find a 2da file, it means you would have to make sure there is not conflict between it and your mod. 

 

 PJ156


Thankyou,



So having not messed with the spells 2da I can assume this will not conflict. I can see no reason not to do this then and all three of my mods will be compatible with this at next release.



PJ 

 

 Shaughn78


This list is the "common" 2das that kaedrin's pack uses.

If any of the below 2das have been modified then it can/will cause conflicts with kaedrin's material.



-armorrulestats

-baseitems

-classes

-cmi_options

-cmi_spellbook

-cmi_spellbonus

-cmi_spellbook_count

-crafting

-crafting_index

-des_crft_scroll

-des_crft_spells

-domains

-feat

-hen_companion

-iprp_feats

-metamagic

-nwn2_deities

-packages

-poison

-polymorph

-race_feat_drow

-race_feat_imaskari

-racialsubtypes

-spells

-spelltargets

-vfx_persistent

-visualeffects



If only the package 2da has been modified, (often modified for companion levelup guides for feats and skills) I know kaedrin has offered in the past to add your lines to his 2da. It was done for Dirtywick's Subelty of Thay games.



It also modifies a number of the class base feats and numerous class package feats and skills.

-cls_bft_(class)  -bonus feats (ie fighter every even level & bonus epic feats)

-cls_ft_(class)   -avaliable feats, base feats and level specific feats for classes

-cls_sk_(class) -avaliable/class skills

-PackSK(package)  -recommended skill progression for chosen package

-PackFT(package) -recommended feat progress for choosen package 

 

 The Fred


Presumably, though, anything *without* custom content of its own will automatically be compatible with mods like Kaedrin's?



When (and if) I (eventually) release my mod, it unfortunately *won't* be compatible with Kaedrin's, but that's because it's based in a custom setting which will have content specifically tailored to it. Since I'll be removing certain classes etc anyway, allowing a load of other D&D ones to be added is not really what I want anyway (though I'm not making it incompatilbe deliberately, ofc). However, for pure D&D-based, and especially FR, mods, it makes a lot of sense to keep it compatible if you can (though usually this means not modifying those 2das, or at least prducing a merged one).



However, compatibility is an issue in its own right, Kaedrin's or not. The fact that no class packs etc work with each other basically stinks, and is probably the reason so few exist (and that for the most part, we have a small number of large mods). As good as Kaedrin's may be, it's basically monopolised the game. 

 

 Guest_Chaos Wielder_*


You have to associate certain scripts with your mod(script names, I mean). Like, I think he changes certain levelup scripts and such--this part is giving me a headache for a certain companion. 

     

     The Fred


    Oh, of course. I guess if you've changed those, it won't work. I know I've had to resort to using them for certain pieces of custom content. 

     

     Shaughn78


    Additional games



    Subtlety of Thay 



    Trial and Terror, works with kaedrin's 1.33

     

     

     Arkalezth


    Thanks, added. I'll add PJ's modules as compatible too, let me know if otherwise.



    @Shaughn: Then I assume that, generally speaking, a module that comes with one (or more) of those 2da files won't be compatible, right? 

     

     PJ156



    Quote

    Arkalezth wrote...



    Thanks, added. I'll add PJ's modules as compatible too, let me know if otherwise.



    @Shaughn: Then I assume that, generally speaking, a module that comes with one (or more) of those 2da files won't be compatible, right?



    Mine are not yet. I am updating in the early new year. I will post you once it's done.



    PJ 

     

     Arkalezth


    Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you. 

     

     manageri


    Subtlety of Thay's compatibility is also outdated. 

     

     Arkalezth


    Are previous versions of Kaedrin's available to download? 

     

     Shaughn78



    Quote

    Arkalezth wrote...



    Thanks, added. I'll add PJ's modules as compatible too, let me know if otherwise.



    @Shaughn: Then I assume that, generally speaking, a module that comes with one (or more) of those 2da files won't be compatible, right?



    Generally that will be true. Some of them may cause conflicts that aren't noticed.



    The biggest 4 to look for are:



    classes; Feats; Packages; Spells; 



    Having one of these editted in a HAK without kaedrin's content will remove large portions of his work. 

     

     DJ Doc


    hmmm I wonder why no one uses diff and patch and a little batch file to create compatible 2da files on the fly that's what I did wayyyy back when I merged Kaedrin's and Races of Faerun 

     

     nicethugbert


    DJ Doc, can you elaborate a little on that?



    Incidentally, I get the impression people are not following the link to the install instructions. 

     

     DJ Doc


    I think you refere to the Kaedrin's Module builder instructions could be that some just don't understand what to do and don't dare to ask ;-)



    But that's not my point right now I just assume they get that part right.



    The Problem I was talking about is conflicting 2das.



    Well can a builder expect players to merge conflicting 2da content by themselfs?



    Most of this players aren't builders or PW admins who know how to work with 2da files so it would be sound to asume that it's one more thing the builder has to take in account.



    Let me just step into the Module builder boots for a moment here. What I do is I compare my 2da s to vanilla (nwn2 MotB + SoZ) and then I'm done right?



    Well not so.Plenty of SP players do use Kaedrin's stuff it's simple for 'em to install (as soon as they figured out were to put that Dialog.tlk file) and just works in vnilla.



    My nice only accounting for vanilla module will break there download copy and play happy world.



    As a vanilla only builder who doesn't know Kaedrin's work in and out I placed no hooks in my module so I break a lot of his Pack (as did MoW) that's easy for a builder to fix as you pointed out earlier with the link to the install instructions and can even be retrofited in.



    When I (as a Builder) am ignorant to the K Pack or just think that a spell should be done differently and mine should overwrite what the user likes best (also known as the versin he has in overwrite) I'm asking for trouble.



    Kaedrin did good with his cmi_options file to change stuff that is not to everyones taste (or p'n'p clean) in a accesable way and sound advise to all builders who just can't help changing already esteblishe stuff around but that's me getting off topic again...



    Were's the Problem with 2da conflicts and what can be done?



    It's shooting a moving target as Kaedrin is (thankfully) adding to his work all the time. So how can we hit that target? Have a look at diff and friends http://www.gnu.org/software/diffutils/



    Let's assume that as a good builder I reserved my section of 2da space in the wiki (is that still around?) I shouldn't have conflicts in the first place.



    But I need to check on install time to be sure and depending how skilled I am I can come up with some automatic conflict solving.



    Here comes diff and patch aka as diffutils into play http://www.gnu.org/software/diffutils/



    It's what developers are doing all the time when hammering out software projects and it can also be used for Module updates just diff directory-with-version-1 directory-with-version-1.1 and here's your



    nice little update :-)



    But back to the 2das



    So let's say we don't overwrite any of caedrin's 2da stuff. All we have to do is merge ours and his together. That's what patch can do.



    Step by step:



    1. make a diff between our whole 2da files, file per file with the vanilla 2das



    2. have a batch file that looks vor 2das that are named as ours are in the override folder and if



    3a. it finds one or more it applys the patches, writes a log and makes a backup of the unpatched 2das



    3b. it finds none, installs our 2da hak pack



    3c. if patch fails create a bug report that the user just have to send out to us (the builder)



    4. player plays mod and gives a 10!



    p.s.: Sorry if this doesn't make much sence my english already went to bed 2 hours ago 

     

     nicethugbert


    What I wanted you to elaborate on is how do you do diffs? What program? Etc. 

     

     DJ Doc


    As I posted before http://www.gnu.org/software/diffutils/



    here's a little howto http://stephenjungel...en-minutes.html

     

     The Fred
     
    This is not dissimilar to what I was pushing for a while back. If anyone's played BG, there was an awesome utility called WeiDU which would intelligently patch things when you installed a mod. I even went so far as to make a demo program which would do the same for NWN(2) but alas, my programming skills weren't really up to it (many years of NWN scripting has left me hard, cunning and creative but completely lacking in "real" programming experience) and what with my other projects I've kinda let it fall by the wayside. If we could introduce one system or another it'd make life a lot easier, because for all their 3D graphics and toolsets, NWN1 and 2 are still behind their predecessor BG in this respect.

     

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     Arkalezth


    Subtlety of Thay was the first NWN2 module that I played and I was thinking of replaying it. It's listed as compatible with Kaedrin's version 1.34.5.7z. I guess I can run into problems if I play with the latest version. Can it be (easily) made compatible with it, or am I better not using it at all? 

     

     dunniteowl


    I'd give it a shot and see, Arkalezth. Subtlety of Thay is an excellent module and I imagine that the newer Kaedrin's might show a few cracks, though, on the whole, I'm willing to bet it'll be pretty okay fine. And if it does, maybe someone can convince the author (maybe) to update it.



    dunniteowl 

     

     Arkalezth


    Thanks dno. I think I'm going to play Path of Evil first because I couldn't complete my test run and, besides, I'm in the game and I want to see it. If someone has anything else to add on the matter, please do.



    AFAIK, the author of SoT has been missed for years now, so I don't know if an update is possible. Though I don't lose anything for trying. 

     

     Arkalezth


    I've asked the author of A Fairy Tale about compatibility with Kaedrin's, but he doesn't seem to be familiar with it, so I couldn't get a definitive answer. Has someone played that module with it installed?



    I'm taking a look at the files that come with the download, and I don't see anything with the extension .2da. Does this mean it's compatible? It comes with a hak, but I don't know if that's a problem. I don't even know how to open it, much less if it has something to do with compatibility. Can someone take a look at it? Parts 2 and 3 at the download page are only module files, so only part 1 would have to be checked, I believe. 

     

     manageri


    If the author hasn't built it with Kaedrin's in mind there's pretty much no chance it's perfectly compatible, even if it was just a mod file. 

     

     Arkalezth


    I'll keep that in mind, but I was hoping someone could give a more specific answer.



    I'd like it to be compatible because it reachs higher levels than most modules, so I could try some classes I've never had the chance to. 

     

     The Fred


    I think it's the module events which will let you down, because they probably won't fire Kaedrin's stuff. What you could do is put modified versions of the module's events in the override folder, much like Kaedrin has for the OCs (it might actually work if they use the OC scripts) so as to make sure Kaedrin's code gets fired. 

     

     M. Rieder


    Fred, I'm glad you bumped this so I could see it. It looks like DJ Doc is describing a system of merging 2da's on the fly. Do I understand correctly? That could be very helpful when putting in content. 

     

     manageri


    Arkalezth you could try copy pasting Kaedrin's stuff into those event scripts, or if the mod uses the default scripts without any changes then I think you can safely just replace them with kaedrin's scripts. I've never bothered trying to make mods compatible with it so there could be further complications, but I can't think of any if there's no 2da conflict. 

     

     Tsongo


    With regards to my module just mentioned I haven't changed any scripts on NPC's except for in one area when a perception one got changed, there are a couple that change things when you enter an area ( people appear ) as well as a few jump ones from transitions, all these scripts have there own name anyway so shouldn't be overridable. I didn't go digging around in original scripts and altering them as I wouldn't know where to start ! Most scripts run from conversations (99%) and they are all the standard ones from the toolset. So possibly putting in the OC Kaedrin change might do it ( I'm saying this when I don't even know what it does or what was changed by the way )



    Good luck to your Paladin Arkalezth you can become my first ever tester ! 

     

     Arkalezth


    Thanks for the answer, Fred, but I don't understand half of your post. ;)



    I know almost nothing about these things, would that be hard to modify (for a newbie), or would it require much work?



    Edit: I missed Manageri's and Tsongo's (thanks for coming) comments. It's not that important if I can't play with Kaedrin's, it's just that I don't know how to be sure. 

     

     The Fred


    Well, Kaedrin uses modifed even scripts (such as the OnItemEquipped script) to make stuff happen (e.g. to turn the Ninja AC bonus on and off when armour is equipped or unequipped). If the module you are trying to apply it to uses custom event scripts, this "stuff" won't happen. What you could do is add an ExecuteScript() line to these scripts to fire off Kaedrin's stuff. If you didn't want to modify the actual module, you can take a copy of these, with the extra line added, and put them in the override folder.



    At least, it should work in theory. ;-) 

     

     Lugaid of the Red Stripes


    Is there a builder's guide somewhere that lists all the modified scripts and what kind of hooks we need to include? 

     

     Kaldor Silverwand


    If you look at his OC module event scripts you can compare them to the originals to see most of what is needed. Requires some study though. 

     

     Tsongo


    Arkalezth.. I just stuck Kaedrins override in my NWN2 override folder and the tlk one in the NWN2 folder and hey presto there are all the classes. I gave myself 20,000 xp and was able to level up as one of the prestige classes. Now whether it works or not is your department as this takes too long to play for me to test it again. From what The Fred says about event scripts it's looking possible as I haven't changed any from the originals, a couple of placeables have conversations on them but that's about it..



    Whether or not your "Ninja War Priest" will unbalance the whole mod and your companions will become super human is yet to be seen.. Good luck. 

     

     Arkalezth


    Thanks for the explanation, Fred, it's clearer now. I don't see myself modifying all that, but it's good to know.



    Tsongo: Yes, that usually works (I believe I played a non-compatible module at some point and I could still take new classes and the like), but other things might not work, so I'm a bit reluctant to use it if I'm not sure about the compatibility. And by the way, sometimes Kaedrin's is useful even if you don't use the new content, because it fixed a lot of bugs.



    I will see about it when the time comes, I'm with a module trilogy right now, so I intend to finish it before. 

     

     MasterChanger


    By the way, those who are interested in Kaedrin's work might want to listen to NWN podcast #138 which has an interview with Sir K. Interesting conversation!



    I especially found it interesting that he said he doesn't play NWN2 that much, and other PW and CC developers said they don't really play their content that much. My experience was quite similar: when I played the stuff I developed, I could never really immerse myself in the playing experience. 

     

     Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
     
     

     

    Quote

    MasterChanger wrote...



    By the way, those who are interested in Kaedrin's work might want to listen to NWN podcast #138 which has an interview with Sir K. Interesting conversation!



    I especially found it interesting that he said he doesn't play NWN2 that much, and other PW and CC developers said they don't really play their content that much. My experience was quite similar: when I played the stuff I developed, I could never really immerse myself in the playing experience.



    This is certainly true for myself as well. In fact, I recall hearing a real game designer--I believe a DOOM 3 Dev--discussing how they had no ability to judge whether or not their game was good or not. They'd been testing/designing it for so long, their ability to judge quality was completley neutered. 


       

       kamal_


      Yeah. So much staring at my own stuff I can't judge it. 

       

       Arkalezth


      Just a heads up, it probably doesn't look like so, but I've been updating the OP more or less regularly. About those modules that are present on both the Vault and the Nexus, I've linked to their Nexus page, simply because I prefer that site myself. Their Vault counterpart should be easy to find if you wanted to. I guess I could link to both sites, but I'm lazy. I might do it at some moment, or I might not.



      As I wrote in the OP, if somebody knows about the compatibility, or lack of, of a module that's not on the list, or if you find any error on it, let me know and I'll update it. 

       

       Hirdas


      Just wondering if you can use this addon if you only have the main game? Without expansions i mean. 

       

       Arkalezth


      No, you need both expansions, as with many other modules/add-ons. The complete game is pretty cheap at the moment in several sites, so you may want to take a look. 

       

       GFallen01


      I wonder about compability with Reeron's Spell Fixes, and in how far this list would apply. For instance, for Trinity (here classified as compatible), I've read about the Spell Fixes breaking stuff.



      As to events, just "not changing" them isn't sufficient; IIRC I've heard Kaedrin mention somewhere that the toolset doesn't set them up correctly by default ("correctly" = like in the Campaigns).



      Further candidates for this list:



      http://nwn2customcon...-modules-events



      I wasn't able to get an answer from Kaedrin or the module authors, so this is what I can see with my limited modding experience. Someone with more insight may want to check things before updating the list:



      Compatible:



      Vordan's Hero Creator

      Battle of the Builds

      FRW Character Creator



      Uncompatible



      JEGs Training Module. 

       

       Arkalezth


      Added those to the list, thanks.



      No idea about Reeron's or the technical stuff. I haven't used the former much and I'm not knowledgeable about the latter.

       

       Guest_Iveforgotmypassword_*
       
       
      Just a couple of questions..



      Does Kaedrins have any different monk type classes ? As if it doesn't it wont matter whether it clashes with my latest mod and if I changed 1 line of 2da to give my monks 3 instant death quivering palms instead of 1 would that effect it ? I haven't changed any other scripts and would what I've done get overwritten and become unnoticeable anyway ? 

       

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       Arkalezth


      The only monk-type class I can think of is Fist of the Forest. I'm not sure if he's made any changes to the monk class (even bug fixes), and I have no idea if what you suggest would make your module incompatible with the pack.



      If you want to stay away from incompatibility problems, I suppose leaving everything as it is is a safer bet, but maybe someone else can give you a better answer than me. 

       

       Guest_Iveforgotmypassword_*
       
       
      Arkalezth..Thanks for the information, it will be only that one line of 2da that's changed so I think it'll be alright even if Kaedrin's overrides it nobody will notice something if they never had it to begin with. Looking at the fist of the forest class I don't think that'll be a problem either as it's not changing that much from a normal monk anyway and adding extra feats is something I've done already in my modules and it doesn't cause any issues. 

         

         Tchos


        Which 2DA did you change? 



        Kaedrin overwrites a lot of them, and I can only guess which one you're using, but they include classes.2da, feat.2da, and cls_skill_monk.2da. 

         

         Guest_Iveforgotmypassword_*


        It was the feat 2da and I just changed the 1 to 3 uses per day for the quivering palm feat. But if Kaedrin's overrides it then I think it will just go back to 1 again as I'm going to put the altered 2da file in the campaign folder and the override will cancel it out.



        Whatever happens my modules for monks only so using Kaedrins hak might be pointless anyway, I was a bit more concerned that there might be some "funky monks" in there that people would want to play as and I'd have to test them out or make adjustments to equipment. 

           

           Arkalezth

           

          I should point out that I stopped using Kaedrin's pack a long time ago, except for modules that have it built in (BGR, Risen Hero...), so if anyone actually checks this list, don't count on me to expand it. I can still update it if people post her about other modules.

           

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