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Remember that Phenotypes thing?

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StraightOuttaAvernus
Remember that Phenotypes thing?

That one. Yeah.

I've belatedly discovered that it creates issues with the Tabard robe models in the toolset -- specifically, they seem to cease to obey gravitational physics -- and even MORE specifically, on Female Characters.

This isn't just with the phenotypes in question, or else I wouldn't worry too much; but because it is a universal, cross-phenotype thing, I can't really grasp what the heck would be wrong (I'm aware of the fact that you have to specifically number robes to use them with  some phenotypes. The problem is that it's affecting Phenotypes that work 'fine' with them in Vanilla, and it's 'only' the loincloth/tabard robemodels (which, to my displeasure, are a very common element of my outfitmaking ^^;). Does anyone have the free time to pull my Phenotype hak apart and figure out what I fucked up?

Current development head of the Anderfell PW project, habitual player of halfdragons, and novice NWscripter

"Keep it simple, stupid" 

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Proleric
Proleric's picture

The thing about robes is that they need a phenotype-specific supermodel, so that the animations map onto the different parts of the robe correctly.

For example, the custom "old" phenotype 9 comes with supermodels pmh9 etc.

In most cases, all you have to do is to copy all the robe models to the new phenotype, ensuring that the correct supermodel is used. First, decompile the models. Then, use the model renaming tool to copy batches of robes. For example, copy all the robes named pmh0_robexxx, changing pmh0 to pmh9. That will change all the internal references to the phenotype, including the supermodel name.

If you've already done that, open the model files in a text editor. Check that the supermodel name is correct, and refers to a supermodel that exists.

There are exceptions to this simple-minded approach. To the best of my knowledge, though, the only robes which look seriously wrong no matter what you do are the long coats (models 20, 21, 116 and 174 in CEP). I believe this is because they were designed for special 1.69 coat animations which very few custom phenotypes support.

If all else fails, you can use moneo to change any robe model numbers that don't work to ones that do.

NWN and DAO adventures at http://proleric.com/

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StraightOuttaAvernus

To clarify -- I'm aware of this as how you make robes behave appropriately for other phenotypes, to be sure; but the problem is specifically that these are robes which were designed for the default phenotype that are no longer working for the default phenotype

To be even more specific, the usual problems associated with a robe NOT working for a phenotype -- such as strange de-synching of the pelvis from the rest of the model -- do not exhibit themselves; but rather, the problem is specifically this:
http://imgur.com/gallery/q7iTP
The robe behaves as a single solid piece with the rest of the pelvis, akin to the CEP robes -- which is, by the by, why I dislike them. It clips the leg and generally reduces the quality and usefulness of that piece massively. 

Note: This is as opened in the outfit editor, not the creature editor.

It isn't functioning properly on any of the default female phenotypes, behaving instead as though the jiggle-bones in the robe were nonexistent, and acting like solid 'chunks' of armor on the model rather than following cloth physics. This behavior is consistent across all robes of that type, which -- in fact -- appear to no longer behave correctly on any female phenotype.

This behavior is inclusive of all models of that type, including -- though not limited to -- the custom ones, which are nowhere nearby the others in numbering; which is why I suspect that simply changing the number of the model isn't going to work.

They will behave appropriately if a module without the top hak for my mod is opened.

They also behave as normal on male phenotypes.

The dillema, of course, is that I believe this means that whatever is causing the issue has changed the base animation-files for the robe and therefore the standard solution, even if I hypothetically desired to, won't work.

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CalSailX

 If they aren't working in game then I'd say something in your model chain the engine is using got mucked up. If it's just female char have the issue then finding the issue narrows it down to their animation chain of models. If you open up the pfh0.mdl in nwnexplorer and view the ASCII Model you'll find that near the top you'll have "setsupermodel pfh0 a_fa". To track down the issue you'll have to follow the model chain though the headers of  two different chains... One that works and the one that your top hak want's the game engine to use. 

 Write down both chains on a piece of paper.... ie: pfh0 - > a_fa -> etc...

Once you know where and how they differ the fix might be as easy as changing the "setsupermodel" lines in a couple models with a text editor to point to the missing animation data. If your lucky it can be just that simple, if your not... then you cross that bridge when you get to it. It can take some time to stomp your way though the model chain in NwnExplorer, but to be honest it's time well spent if your inclined to add custom animations to your module.

 When we got the abilty to change phenotypes of a char, a lot of issues went away because custom animations no longer needed to be bolted into some place like the "a_ba_custom" file.  Thank God!

 Anyhow I hope you can find something in this post helpful, although you'd most likely find a flow chart of the current model chain for pfh* more useful. At the moment my nwn plate is overflowing with things that I've already promised to do for folks, or I'd dig into your hak for a peak.

 Good luck!, If your still stuck a few weeks from now let me know, I might at least be able to see the bottom of my plate by then.

 Maybe the pathfinding is broken on the tile, but my theory is she's beating her head against the wall because I added that last line to her dialog!

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StraightOuttaAvernus

Righty, right. Tried working with some of the stuff mentioned. Unfortunately, I'm still getting the same 'static loincloths' issue! I'll keep going at it naturally, but It'd be supergreat if I could finish it ASAP -- since 'till this bug is knocked out, I don't feel like launching the server only to potentially need a full hak update a week/two weeks in.

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CalSailX

 I found the major bug in your model chain, "karpad_base3.mdl" is old and lacks all the current model parts. Your pfh0 calls it directly and the animation engine chokes when it doesn't find the animation nodes for a loincloth in the model. If it's moved further down the animation chain you can get most, but not all the female loincloth animations working, I think there are still a few simple ones that get picked up from the a_ba model.

 The other thing I found was your "pfh0.mdl" model looks a little hinky refering to a setsupermodel pfh21.

 Anyhow that's what I've found out so far, I'll poke at the issue a little more after some sleep.  

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CalSailX

Fixed... messaged you for contact info.

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StraightOuttaAvernus

Huge belated thanks! I've put it into my pack as part of my recompiling/expansion of the current hak -- and I'll update the vault version with the bugfix later

 

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