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Project Q - next

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meaglyn
Project Q - next

Hi Folks,

           Partially in light of the all the new attention and partially because it's time anyway I thought we should start talking about the future of project Q.  Here are a few things I'd like to see happen:

1) Restructure the haks to make a simpler overrider only setup for use with patch haks.   I believe Henesua had a prototype of this and I'll be reaching out to him to see what state that is in.  I think this will be a benefit for a wide audience.  An effective simple Q patch hak(s) setup could be a really good thing.  I plan to start working on this soon.

2) Expanded demo module.  For 2.2 we have a starter module which is empty, ready for builders and a small demo module.  I think the demo module should be expanded (by someone who is a better builder than I) to really showcase what Q can do.  Any takers?

3) Updated and new content.  This is pretty open at this point. I don't have anything burning that I think needs to go in.  Some very initial thoughts:

  • Some of the newer CCC stuff 
  • Fixed up/additional walkable bed tiles
  • Any bugfixes

Suggestions, comments, contributions (of time and expertise)?

 

Thanks,

meaglyn

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sherincall

Soon we'll start getting EE exclusive CC, utilizing the improvements made since 1.69. Would you want to stay 100% 1.69 compatible, or would you be open to adding an optional EE-only hak that would have this content? What if, to make use of an EE feature, a modification to the original model/texture/etc is needed? Assuming the modification doesn't break 1.69, would it be okay to make it?

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meaglyn

@sherincall, that's a good question. I think the way I'd want to do that is with optional 1.74+ haks.  If the changed model or texture truly worked fine in 1.69 then I think it could just replace what's there.  Anything new that would not work with 1.69 would need to be optional.

If a change is needed to a resource already in the hak set to make a later EE only feature work that changed earlier asset would just need to be in the optional hak above the original version. That part is just managing the resources.  We already do that with some of the optional haks.

 

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Siz

When I started building with NWN I was a CEP guy, but the low quality content even for NWN standards was annoying, I really like when all content kinda fitts with each other. Thats why I decided to move my module to Project Q.And Im loving it to this day, still getting a few things from CEP and merging it with Q but one thing I would really like to see in new updates (I know there might be bigger problems but...) - the rest of the dragons upgraded! I thing they were made by_six and not sure He's still around to 'finish the job' but I thing He did a great job and would love to see the rest of the wyrms getting this revamp.

Regards

Siz

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joaquim98

I'd love if retextures of the vanilla tilesets were added such as zwerkules's facelifts and some of the additional voice sets that Q adds sound very bad, maybe update them or add new ones.

 

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Alhoon_Artur

This is my first post here :) Hello Community!

I am currently creating a PW module based on Q haks. Project Q is a truly magnificent work full of top quality content, yet there are still some flaws that in my opinion disturb the overall feeling a little bit. Don't know whether they have been adressed before or I caused them myself, but I wanted to share my personal experience as a builder. So:

1. There are a lot of missing/incomplete parts of certain weapons. For instance, the bottom number 18 of the Longsword model represents a very decorated handgrip that has no match with a blade model. That makes it useless, which is a shame, because the whole would make a very beautiful endgame sword for my PW :) I've recently seen some beautiful imported assets from Diablo, many new weapons, shields armours... I think the more items the better immersion, so please consider it!

2. In my opinion the weakest part of Project Q assets are the heads for human characters. Don't know why, but nearly half of them represent faces of Far-Eastern origins. Not only their utility for modules based in European or Middle-Eastern setting (like mine) are limited, but most of them are of rather poor quality. The best head models provided with Project Q are those from KOTOR, but since there are not so many of them, they quickly become repetetive and decrease module's immersion. Therefore I think it would really help the overall feeling if you added more heads. Personally I am using the override version of TheBarbarian's NWN heads and they all look fantastic. Have you considered adding them to the package?

3. I can imagine that adding new tilesets greatly increases weight of the package, but everything made by Zwerkules is absolutely gorgeous and I can't imagine my module without it - especially the Medieval City and Medieval Rural. If it was possible to fix door issues with his tilesets, or even add them to the project, that would be great.

4. A lot of Baba Yaga's Improved Creatures are present in Project Q, but the banshees and the yellow skinny zombies are not, why? Also, the dimension dragon from December 2016 CCC is bloody awesome, please add it! ^^

Well, that was a long wishlist from a builder who has no knowledge in merging and re-packing haks, but I wanted to congratulate you guys on everything you have done with Project Q, please keep up the good work!!! :)

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TheBarbarian

TheBarbarian's NWN heads - Have you considered adding them to the package?

Please for the love of all that is cake, pick out the decent ones if you decide to do that. Nobody needs to see more of the old EMs or the early HMs. ::mimes gagging:: ^^

 

Also, I love the idea of a Project Q patch hak.

 

(and also, hello Alhoon_Arthur! :D Here's a tutorial on merging haks, in case you decide to put together your own content collection for your project at some point.)

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Surek

Just wanted to through my two cents in here as well.

 I really love project Q and use it for everything I do however, and maybe i'm the only one but I really dislike the way shields look I appreciate all the hard work that goes into to Q , I would like to see some type of revamp to the shields.

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Tarot Redhand

@Surek You have seen this haven't you? As I make stuff that is compatible with the CEP you'd probably have to edit the 2da file to make it work with project Q.

TR

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meaglyn

The problem, or not depending on how you look at it, is that PQ changed the shield model type from 1 piece to 3 part configurable. That makes it harder to have all the specific modeled shields.  It allows you to configure them with different shapes borders and bosses.  This decision was made before my time. It's not going to be undone.  However, I may see if reverting could be made an optional feature.   I was doing that in my personal hak set for the small shields because I really like all the specific small shields out there.

 

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Andarian

It is possible to define additional shields with the old format alongside the multi-part Q shields. I did this in my modules, which use a mix of them. If there’s interest I’ll look up how I did it and follow up.

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Tarot Redhand

Yes please. I suspect that would help a lot of people.

TR

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meaglyn

I don't see how that works.  I believe there are some places in the game engine that hardcode the 2da row numbers for shield functionality.      You can add a new baseitem and give it all the right settings but it still won't work like a shield in the engine. But the details are fuzzy.  

If you got it to work I'd like to see it too.

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verilazic

I'd love to see a few more tilesets worked in.

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Andarian

Meaglyn: Here's an example. It's less impressive than it may sound. :)

If I recall, what I did was simply to add the "normal" shield models and textures I wanted as an additional "bottom part" to select for a Q shield. It's not a trivial solution because it requires you to do a bit of item model editing and renaming. But it was enough to let me add the handful of shield models I had from earlier versions of my mod that I needed to preserve.

I do echo the suggestion to back out the multi-part shield model system. It was a clever idea, but in the end it creates more problems (especially compatibility issues with other content) than it's worth.

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meaglyn

Ah, I see, thanks. That makes sense. Yes, that could work.  There may be limits of course.

Unfortunately, we can't back out the multipart shields at this point.  Possibly an optional hak with that change.

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Kalindor

  I too enjoy Project Q and cannot imagine building anything in NwN(EE) without it. Personally I would be very happy to see EE-specific content such as shaders represented.

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GamerX51
  • Fixed up/additional walkable bed tiles

 

Yay! walkable bed tiles! Thank you for taking my request seriously, Meaglyn! smiley

 

But on a more serious note, I'd like to see the large ships from the Galleons!  hak added to the city and rural city tilesets. I'd also recommend  looking into adding Dynamic Deity Populated Pantheon by graywolf.theheathen. It's an awesome pantheon system that can be easily adapted to any setting and provides builders with a way to create custom pantheons.

 

I think the Galleons hak needs an update for HotU, but the DDPP should be relatively simple to add.

If you're going through hell, then just keep going.

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meaglyn

DDPP is a great system. It's The Krit's work though not graywolf's.  I use a modified version of it myself and highly recommend it.  However, it's not going it Project Q.   I don't see Project Q as being a full feature base module.  There are already more scripts in there than there should be.  And I say that as someone who's primary CC strength is scripting...

As to the models/tilesets (beds and ships)... having that it Q will depend on someone with the required skills doing the work.  Also we'll have to see the results and decide.  I'm not a modeler.  For Q I'm a coordinator and release engineer  :)

Cheers,

meaglyn

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Pstemarie

First off - I'm not here to try and wrest control of Project Q back from anyone. Meaglyn has done a great job picking up the reins and establishing an overall forward thinking vision for Project Q. I am however willing to offer any technical support I can.

I'm currently working Project Q into a module I'm building using NWN EE. So far I have found no significant issues with anything from Project Q working in NWN EE, but I haven't done a lot of playtesting. What I have noticed is that areas built using the expanded TNO tilesel that used to stutter in 1.69 when moving around them NO longer experience this issue using NWN EE. The engine seems a lot more responsive especially in areas that have a lot of rendering to do.

1. I have found some missing textures in q_placeables - as soon as I can isolate which ones they are, I'll drop Meaglyn a message. The missing textures might also be caused by the fact that I have none of the optional Q HAKs attached at this time.

2. Shield Regression - this is easy enough to accomplish with an enduser created HAK that sits over the Q HAKs. I actually have done this myself and the regression casused NO issues with Q. However, it is a LOT of extra work. Unfortunately, my copies of the regression HAK were lost when my backup drive crashed and burned. What regression entails is renaming the bottom models and changing the lines for shields in baseitems.2da back to their original state.

UPDATE - Found the files. Glad to share if someone wants them.

3. Patch HAK - I like it. 

4. HAK Changes - A lot of the original design intent for Q was for it to be modular in nature. Each of the base HAKs was designed to be able to be added to a module independantly of the other base HAKs (except q_2da - this was required). Personally, I prefer to use only q_creatures, q_placeables, q_portraits, q_sounds, and q_tilesets. Although additional phenos are nice, I've never found them to be a requirement to make a good module. Furthermore, although the additional item options and PC parts are great, I've always been loathe to use them because if I'm making a module, I want the player to be able to take his character with him when he's done. You can't do that unless the next module the character jumps into uses Project Q. Although it is possible I'm totally mistaken about this and hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Pstemarie - Project Q Grand Pooba

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Andarian

Pstemarie, thanks for the update. Yes, I'd be very interested in the shield regression hak.

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Revenant

I'm not trying to pimp my own project, but I did put together a Shield hak to be used with Project Q that overwrites the Q shields back to the old Bioware style and adds a bunch of higher quality models from the vault.  Probably not helpful if you've already built shields using Q, but if you are starting a new module, it might prove useful.  The link is below.

http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/treasury-shields

 

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Pstemarie

I'll be posting it to the Vault in the next couple of days - just want to test some stuff and make sure I got it right. Currently it only includes the models, textures, and icons necessary to ovewrite ashlw, ashsw, and ashto models 011-013, 021-023, 031-033, and 041-043. I've currently got it implemented as a patch hak into my NWN EE installation because I use a "lite" version of Q (which I plan on posting as well).

I'll PM you when everything is up.

Q-Lite

Q-Lite is a module tophak that sits above the Q haks and is only intended for use with the following haks from Q v2.2: q_creatures, q_placeables, q_portraits, q_sounds, q_tilesets, and q_vfxgui. It does NOT change anything in those haks. I am currently working on a readme that provides details about Q-Lite and my rationale for the choices I made of what not to include.

Q-Lite is NOT supported by the current Q Team. I will be supporting it as an option to use with Project Q for those Builders that desire a lighter version of that resource.

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Dark_Ansem

I would like to ask two points:

  • the new NWNEE allows for Normal Maps and Specular Masks. Do you believe some Q content could use them?
  • Would you consider making some content a non-replacing option? Beholders, for example: Vanilla ones look great, and I would love to use them paired with the Q ones?
In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!
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Pstemarie

I've talked to Meaglyn and its apparent I jumped the gun on this whole update to Q v2.3. I should have tried harder to reach out to him first, but, what can I say, I got excited and forged ahead. My bad.

Until we can work out the details, any big update is on hold.

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meaglyn

Thanks pstemarie.  Glad to have you back!  I'm sure we will be able to work something out and get the next release going.  I like the shield regression hak.  If that works as advertized then I think it will be a pretty popular option.

Stay tuned folks.

 

Cheers,

meaglyn

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boodah

Sounds cool, Meaglyn :)

And nice to see you back as well, Paul.

Couple o' bugs to fix:

- the birch tree placeables are missing pwks

- in the tno tileset, some of the castle/sea cliff tiles use the twc03_wtsea01 texture, not the tno01 one -> easiest way to fix would be overwriting twc03_wtsea01.tga with a renamed copy of tno01_wtsea01; other option would be changing the texture in the offending mdls

- minor thing: in the wildlands winter set, the wooden hut is missing a door node

- the Q interior tileset is missing several door nodes as well, causing many doors to not block the view to the room behind the door

I made fixes for all those for my own top hak already, so I can send them your way, if you're interested.

As to things I'd like to see included:

- roofs for the remaing interior tilesets; starting with the two city interiors preferably (maybe just  (re-)integrate Zwerkules work, if he's cool with that)

- yuan-ti abominations

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meaglyn

Hey Boodah!  Good to see you're still around.  Sure, send along your changes. I assume you still have my email?  

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weavejester

Suggestions, comments, contributions (of time and expertise)?

Perhaps Project Q could be put on the Steam Workshop, as the CEP is? If you don't have time to do this, I'd be happy to put it up myself and update it on new releases. I'm currently building a module that uses Project Q heavily, and having it up on the Steam Workshop would simplify the download immensely.

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Crown of Antlers

Perhaps Project Q could be put on the Steam Workshop (link is external), as the CEP is? If you don't have time to do this, I'd be happy to put it up myself and update it on new releases. I'm currently building a module that uses Project Q heavily, and having it up on the Steam Workshop would simplify the download immensely.

 

If this is ever done, I ask that Project Q continue to be available for those of us who don't use Steam. I don't use it and I will absolutely not install it on my computer. In fact I have never purchased Skyrim in spite of my love for the Elder Scrolls series due to the fact that Skyrim requires Steam to run. When any game developer has their games require Steam, they loose me as a customer.

I've been working on a module that uses Project Q. I love it and frequently look for updates, eagerly downloading when I see that a new update is available, but if updates can only be available through Steam that will be the end of it for me. And I'm not the only gamer who refuses to have anything to do with Steam. So please keep this wonderful content available for those of us who choose to remain "Steamless". I for one would GREATLY appreciate that.

 

 

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Proleric
Proleric's picture

I can't speak for Q, but, in general, there's no risk that Steam will replace the Vault.

You don't need Steam to run EE. Anyone who buys EE direct from Beamdog, or Diamond Edition from Gog, will need the Vault. So will all the Steam players who want to play those Vault mods which are not migrated to Steam Workshop (probably the vast majority).

NWN and DAO adventures at http://proleric.com/

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Crown of Antlers

Thank you, Proleric. You answered another one of my questions; I had been wondering if Steam was the only way to purchase EE. I'm glad to find out that is indeed not the case. smiley

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TheStoryteller01

I am too working on a PQ mod (for some time now, on and off) and the strongest part are the tilesets, mostly because its possible to create nearly every kind of area in the TNO exterior style.

What I found missing most where portraits, compared to CEP there isn't a lot of additional content. There are also most of  the CCC NPCs (another great addition) missing their portrait although I am sure I have seen a lot of them elsewhere.

And a possible bug: The WW Manor Courtyard tiles, including the Courtyard Fountain (all part of the Castle Exterior Rural tileset)  only show up as white squares on the player map.

You can check out my NWN2 downloads at www.thestoryteller01.wordpress.com

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