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Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition What we need and want.

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ShadowM
Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition What we need and want.

LINK OF ANOUNCEMENT

BEAMDOG'S NWN FORUM LINK

Live stream announcement LINK

TWITTER LIVE STREAM BEAMDOG

2nd TWITTER LIVE STREAM TODAY NOV. 24 at 11:30am PST

Announcement of stream

Anoucement say they will be weekly. We see how long that last wink

With the announcement of nwn enchanced we need to get together and make sure we contact them and let them know what need to be fixed and added (reasonably)

Let me know some more and I update the list.

 

NEED FIXED

Creatures special abilities missing from radial when DM possessing NPC (breath weapons, etc....) left over from patch 1.69

Custom Skill.2da causing crash!

Environmental shadows not be such a resource hog (probably fix with shader updates)

Toolset item limit (16k Resource limit)

Size Modifier to AC showing up on character sheet.

 

WANT

Allow custom rays, visual effects on weapons, custom races, custom base classes etc.. NWN client externder items. Without the need of the extender.

Most of the script functions with extender in basic game(without an extender).

Unlocked toolset windows. So you can work in multiple windows and resize them.

Preload haks in multiplayer

Open face helmets / Hide helmet.

Increased Head limit

More multi-thread support / 64-bit (game / toolset / server)

Better base character models.

Better compatibility with windows 7 / 10

Toolset, select npc animal companion / familar / cleric domains

Feat.2da allow you to adjust skills (not affecting cap) example Colum names SKILLNUM(skill.2da) SKILLMOD (amount feat gives). So we can have some the basic feats that adjust skills. (not added to base feat.2da but supported so no worries about backwards compatibility and allows for current and future modders to add in)

Creature and placable Tinting / placable scaling support for modders (probably not going to happen).

Placable tilting along every axis.

Items are treated the same as placables as to textures, items location can be adjusted like placables and stay there.

Deity on character sheet

Ability to direct control party members.

Improve the GUI eg quickspell panel, enhanced hotbar

Custom animation on S type creatures not just dynamic models.

 

 

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ABJECT_SELF

Support for multi-core CPUs, both with the game and Aurora toolset (if they include it).

I know that will probably be implemented by default, but it would be such a huge boost to performance for this game that it would be worth buying over the original alone!

Recovering modding addict, currently relapsing hard.

 

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Jedijax
 
 

For one, I just hope they don't just add a couple things and rebrand it as "Enhanced Edition", which seems to be the case for most endeavors of the like. Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale "Enhanced Editions" have been deemed to be worse than their originals, as far as I know. What I would really want is for my game to run as smooth as the trailer shows, because NEVER has it run like that, not even a vanilla, mod-less version! Better dynamic model loading would go A LONG way, as well as making it 64bits and large address aware by default. I doubt the shaders and lighting thing can be a serious game-changing feature, as most of the postprocessing things thrown into games make things blurrier, shinier and that passes up for realism. If you like Depth of FIeld and Motion Blur, Film Grain and Bloom, then I'm sure you'll be delighted... Only post proc I have really liked in a game was the TXAAx2 of Infinite Warfare. That thing was even better than SGSSAA X4! The DPI aware resizing could be a great feature, tho, unless it needs nvidia driver updates to actually work, as has happened with other games. Loads of potential in the "what we want list", but I doubt most of it is even feasible given the scope of an "Enhanced Edition" for such an old engine.

 

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Jedijax

Repost due to... I don't even know why.

 
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rogueknight333

To my mind the most important priority for a project like this would be maintaining backwards compatibility with existing modules and custom content (which thankfully they claim to be doing), so with that in mind I would actually prefer they not be too ambitious.

The main thing NWN actually needs, that the community cannot provide itself, is improved compatibility with up-to-date operating systems and video cards.

One thing I hope they do NOT add is additional Prestige classes, races, spells, etc., as that would potentially unbalance combat in every existing module.

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Mecheon

Agreeing on resource limits, though I'd also be up for them doing something about the head limit and that weird behavior where a bunch of them don't show in the tileset

Wouldn't say no to the hak or tileset limits being changed either

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TheBarbarian

Separate hairstyles and faces (which is also in the interest of open-face helmets)! Maybe add another slot for other head-aligned character customization models. We could put stuff like horns, glasses/monocles, or jewelry in it. Just give me the functionality. I'll take care of the models myself if need be. x_x

Zooming in the character creation screen.

Heads 2das for determining whether a particular head model is available to players during character creation, and to change the list order of the heads ingame, like we can do with armour class and armour parts.

Maybe unlock wings and tails for character creation, and add racial wing/tail 2das for setting which are available for a particular race.

Enable the combat animations to be played via scripting, for staging dramatic fake battles in cutscenes.

Flying? Is that doable in NWN? If not, can it be made doable? Even just kind-of-sort-of faked vertical position adjusting flying would unlock heaps of storytelling settings, aerial as well as underwater.

Make the DM abilities (and Possess/Unpossess Familiar) accessible via scripting? Possessing NPC companions comes up as a fairly regular help-request.

More inventory-item-linked appearance changes. Cloaks got visibility, right? If it's not horribly impractical for some reason, the same thing could be done for gloves, belts, and boots. The models for it are already there, after all. Maybe necks, too.

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Tarot Redhand

For anyone interested, Just found this on Beamdogs twitter page. Apparently they'll do a twitch livestream at noon pst  (11 hours from now as I type this). Nothing on their YouTube channel though.

As long as it doesn't use the terrain builder from NwN 2...

FWIW I wonder if Rolo was involved?

TR

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jjglvz

Most of the stuff mentioned here is from the pov of builders. As a player I would like:-

Ability to direct control party members.

Improve the GUI eg quickspell panel, enhanced hotbar, not really a fan of the radial menu either...

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Vermillion
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Vermillion

This is all known info at this point: Enchanced Edition includes OC+SoU+HotU+Pirates of the Sword Coast+Infinite Dungeons+Wyvern Crown of Cormyr; there will be no new content or serious graphic changes (altough they add bloom effect - trailer), re-drawned UI with adjustable font size, better compability with Windows 10 and modern monitors, full compability with old content.
Price: 20$

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Tarot Redhand

Here's a quick little list of things that'd be nice to have. Will we get 'em all? I doubt it but whatever we get I will regard as a bonus.

For everyone

  • 64 bit multi core
  • All graphics modes up to 4k
For Players
  • Ability to select costume at character creation with no monetary penalty
  • Optional first person perspective when no henchies
  • Full henchie control

For Builders

  • A visual studio style tabbed interface for the toolset
  • Better debugging tools in script editor eg any
  • Tabs in script editor
  • Moving placeables e.g. carts, etc
  • Plug in support for editor
  • Fully tiltable placeables
  • Crossing walkmeshes eg bridges etc.
For Content Creators
  • Proper placeable walkmeshes
  • Removal of all size limits

TR

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dafena

I would be happy with just heads supporting transparency.

If that was the case, i'll just redo all the heads that i made.

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jjglvz

Oh well. I guess just a version of nwn that works better with modern os/cards is still good.

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Grymlorde

Given that Beamdog has announced that they will shortly be accepting pre-orders and that this announcement is the typical pre-release hype, I think it's safe to safe that the product is in final beta and will go gold very soon.

Which means that the only feature requests that they will act on will be minor bugs that can easily be coded, tested, and deployed. *Sigh* I really, really wish they had contacted us last year to get this list. I fear that the the vast majority of our wishes will go unanswered because it is too late.

Having said that, if the game is fully 100% backwards compatible to 1.69 and supports multi-core threading and high-resolution screens, I'll still buy it.

NB: I still think we should compile the list and send it over. I'm just lamenting the fact that they didn't reach out to us.

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Drewskie

​"there will be no new content"

 

​Where did they say this?  This seems odd as Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 enhanced had new content and npcs, and considering how easy the toolset is to work with.

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The Amethyst Dragon

They've gotten community input. ;)

- The Amethyst Dragon
---------------
World of Aenea (The origin of almost all my works.)
My NWN Works: The Complete List (120+ entries...You want this stuff.)
CEP 2.63 (Oh, this? Just a little something I've been working on since 2014.)
------ Neverwinter Nights Community Site: The Unofficial Homepage for NWN ------

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ShadowM

I figured they did ;) just hope you guys did not forget some stuff hehe. I wish they asked me, been around since release. Ohh well I just overall very happy :)

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kamal

Yes but people screamed bloody murder over the new content they added. When they did Torment EE they did no new content, going so far as providing you a still 640x480 nothing at all new except it runs on a modern OS option.

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ShadowM

Doubledimas has linked this topic on beamdog nwn general forum under Feature proposals/requests. So it is getting some exposure.

As to all features locked, I read in some of the news articles that a headstart / beta group will be selected for feedback. This might be just for bug spotting/conflicts of systems issue though.

 

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Vanya Mia

"...full compability with old content."

Do we have any indication of how it will affect custom content? There's a lot of it out there and if it's all going to require remodelling to work, if it works at all, that's going to limit it's worth for a lot of us.

"I took Skill Focus: Craft Disturbing Mental Image as my feat last level." Belkar, OOTS

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ShadowM

From what I have read they adding support to future CC with Pixel shaders and post-processing effects. This will not affect current custom content. I'm sure they get some of the community guys they got under a gag restriction or beamdog will make some samples showing off the new items and post trailer of it or will show it off in the live stream. I suggest you all watch the live stream as it will answer a lot of questions.

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TimG

in any event it represents activity that may bring people back to the game

real life has a way of pulling people away... there needs to be stimulus to get players back

There are some who call me "Tim"

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Tarot Redhand

It looks like it's got at least 1 person back when it comes out. They sent them a picture that had the words "I love you Beamdog" via twitter, when they heard about this. Beamdog replied by printing it out and putting it on their fridge (wih twitter picture).

TR

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wkbuilder

A way to install custom content that a laymen could easily use either included as an add on, or accessible in game even. I realise things like that exist here, but it would make it more accessible to casual players that don't want to or are afraid to mod their game. I point to they way Left 4 Dead 2 did, you can actually install mods in game, rather than having to hunt them on external sites like this.

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Andarian

For those interested in details, you can find a lot of the answers on the FAQ here: https://www.beamdog.com/nwn_faq

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Grymlorde

I pre-ordered the game. How could I not?!? Hopefully I'll get selected for beta. Haven't been offered an application, so I don't know what's going on with that. But if I do get selected, I'll do my best to break it!

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Andarian

Well, that was odd. I just posted a feature request topic in Beamdog's forums, and it was taken down with a message that it's being reviewed by the moderators. All it said was that the appraise skill was broken, and that I'd written a fix for it that I'd be willing to give them.

I thought we were being encouraged to provide constructive feedback on their forums. Doing that and having it removed for moderation is a bit disconcerting to say the least. Has anyone else had this happen to them?

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Empyre65

It would be awesome to have better path-finding. The path-finding in NWN is pitiful compared to the Infinity engine games. If an ally or enemy crosses between you and your target, you are dropped out of combat because you cannot reach target. All your character needs to do is take a couple steps to the right or left.

"Never laugh in the face of a live dragon." - Bilbo Baggins

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kamal
People give them a fix for something for free, they wind up as contributing, and later decide demand payment for it. Not that you would do it, but it's why the lawyers don't allow that.
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kamal

Quotes from faq: "We've brought Bernhard Stöckner, a community leader who maintains Neverwinter Vault, onto the development team. "

 

"We have been working very closely with Shadooow to incorporate portions of the Community Patch (also known as CPP or 1.71). We plan to continue incorporating fixes which will appear in future patches."

 

Bernhard Stöckner: We've done a thorough security audit of the codebase, removing all known exploits and crash issues in the process. We have also addressed a great many engine, game and rules problems, as well as improved server performance significantly. On the big feature front, we have done work as well. In addition to things mentioned elsewhere, you can expect to see a collection of new scripting commands and ini configuration flags, hak loading before character creation, area instancing, and much more as the beta will progress and bring in feedback. Last, but not least, we've approached the NWNX developers and are actively helping them with a clean and complete rewrite of the codebase to the new release, so that the majority of server transitions will go as smooth as possible. Future patches will receive the same loving attention!

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Andarian

I think that's absurd. And it's no reason to remove a post. At most, it's a reason to explain the policy you just speculated on.

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kamal
You may think it absurd, but on the forums for another game we were officially told that was the reason for not accepting forum offered help/code.
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Andarian

Then let them tell me that. I've seen nothing so far. Also, your last two posts contradict each other.

My post just disappeared and hasn't returned. I received no feedback or message about it, or what might have been wrong with it. Instead, now I'm reluctant to post on the site out of concern for upsetting the moderators -- without understanding why.

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Tarot Redhand

I tried to register for the forums and ended up registering with beamdog instead. Not that surprising I suppose when there are 2 places to register on the forum page and the one for the forums is tiny compared to the other. Ho Hum. Try again tomorrow.

From what I read on the FAQ D20 modern might not work without some rewriting. I could be wrong but that is the impression I get.

TR

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xorbaxian

most of what i want is already available in nwnx, but there are still some formidable limitations. i'll cover those here.

FOR PLAYERS

  • full complement of function keys for the quickbar, including all combos of shift, ctrl and alt.
  • fix the engine bug where a character using ranged attack is penalised if the target is stunned [engine thinks the target is prone]
  • i absolutely HATE HATE HATE nwn's pathfinding. if they could do anything to make this more intelligent, i would praise their devs to the ends of the universe til the end of time itself. and bring ice cream.
  • [in the 'dare i dream' category] better-looking higher-poly character models recognized by an engine that will nonetheless support display of std low-poly nwn models.

FOR BUILDERS

  • nwscript functions supporting area awareness tops my list. being able to find out if there's a wall at a given location, if a given location has a baked placeable on it [and if so what are its dimensions], and surface characteristics that affect character movement. functions such as :
    • GetTile(location loc) to find out what exact tile is at a given location. from this we can consult a 2da or database containing model information about the tile, allowing us to write better a/i.
    • GetTileOrientation(location loc), so we can get the rotation the tile was placed in
    • GetSurface(location loc) [this is in nwnx, but it's never worked right]
  • catchable events on pc's that duplicate some of those already available for npc's
    • OnDamaged
    • OnPhysicalAttacked
  • improve graphics processing to reduce lag in 'busy' or highly-populated areas.
  • the ability to change a creature's size programmatically, functional for any creature object.
  • the ability to create sound objects programmatically, preferably using the standard CreateObject() paradigm.
  • an nwscript function to cause a creature to speak the text string from its voice set associated w/the voicechat entry it's instructed to speak [e.g. w/PlayVoiceChat()]. for example, npc goblin plays .wav file, player hears 'meek jockem joo!' and also sees that same text from the goblin à la SpeakString().
  • the ability to create rectangular triggers of arbitrary dimensions dynamically through program control
    • object oTrig = CreateTriggerAtLocation(location lLoc, float fHeight = 1.0, float fWidth = 1.0)
    • should be usable w/nwnx SetEventHandler() or SetScript()
  • the ability to specify a specific vfx for a given pc's player only -- such as that attempted by nwnx AreaVisualEffectForPC(), but working correctly
  • ...and last, but far from least, a toolset that doesn't take 4,000,000 years to display even the smallest areas when you choose 'view area', or even just the area's properties.

 

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NWShacker

The trailer is really unimpressive. No wonder it gets downvoted on YT.

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niv

Hey so - yeah, busted!

@Andarian: That was probablty the spam filter, for reasons unknown to mankind. If you post again and it happens again, I'll take care of it showing up properly. You won't make any mods angry by posting valid stuff.  And bugfixes and feature requests are DEFINITELY welcome!  But we'll have to prioritise and organise first before even thinking about any features to the fixlist.  I'm sure you've all seen the flood of things people want.

As Phil/Trent said, the idea is to let the community guide (that's a nice wooly word isn't it?) development to a point where they can request features and be in a dialogue with the devs. Like the live team of old!

So much to do .. so many places to be ..

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CalSailX

Improved path-finding is also near the top of my list, stuck npc's eat cpu time like it was a bag of M&M's. 

 

 Maybe the pathfinding is broken on the tile, but my theory is she's beating her head against the wall because I added that last line to her dialog!

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TheBarbarian

Adding "Head-Aligned 1"/"Head-Aligned 2" slots to the dynamic races might be a way to handle head/hair separation that doesn't break anything nor require the new devs to edit the models. Modders could add override haks baldifying the standard heads, and make hairstyles for the head-aligned slots, and the OC would be wholly unaffected. Actually, "bodypart-aligned" extra slots would be neat in general - you could put shackles on people's arms and ankles, backpacks on their torsos, and whatnot, without having to edit the armour item.

I'm withholding judgement until they've had a chance to actually get started on community requests, anyway. So far it looks mostly like putting instagram filters on already existing content, yeah, but there's something to be said for having paid devs working full-time. Lots of neat stuff they could do.

edit: Also, if the number of the head-aligned slots defaulted to the number of the head model if no other is specified, we could separate the meshes into baldified head & same-numbered head-aligned hair, and make an override hak that doesn't break the original campaigns either.

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Andarian

Niv: I did re-post it, thanks. Trent Oster commented on the NWN FB page with similar feedback. My concern is lifted. :)

Following kamal's input, though, I omitted the offer to provide the appraise fix I've already written. I may go ahead and add a comment to that effect now. I'd promised to package it as a hak and upload it to the vault anyway, so I'll just go ahead and do that shortly. The way I implemented it is pretty much a single-script drop-in, so it's low-hanging fruit if they want it. :) 

I hope the folks at Beamdog know that some of us who've had years of experience with NWN building would be willing to help out this way, as I think some did with the 1.69 patch. I wouldn't turn my nose up at an opportunity to do paid work at some point if there were interest -- but if I offer to provide something gratis, then I mean it. :)

EDIT: The original post is back this morning. Unfortunately I can't delete the second one now. I updated them slightly to indicate that the second was a duplicate.

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Grymlorde
  1. Better AI for henchman and monsters. I like what Auldur & TonyK did but it's buggy and could use some enhancements.
  2. Fix broken tilesets so that doors actually block visibility like they're supposed to. I'm looking at you, Fort Interior and Barrows.
  3. Fix the mini-map so that it doesn't reveal corridors hundreds of meters away. Ideally, it should reveal based on the PC's light source. Currently it acts like Noon on a bright sunny day!
  4. Fix the module & area treasure container system so that when gold drops, it really is based on what's in those containers instead of some obscure formula buried deep in the scripting system.
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Semper

did the thought ever occur to you people that this enhanced edition will only help to fragment the already small community? what good are new script functions and engine enhancements if you can't use them with the old version of nwn? what if those updated or newly created mods can't be run? usually compatibilty is a one way street. not everybody will buy nwn ee, especially players who are not interested in shaders. do you really believe that content creators will maintain two separate versions of their mods to not lose players?

hopefully beamdog keeps their hands off of nwn2.

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Proleric
Proleric's picture

@semper - the compatibility point is valid.

The good news is that EE will grow the audience for our stuff.

The wait-and-see news is that cautious builders will stick to the old toolset, to support both old and new players, until most players switch, or truly must-have builder features emerge. That must have been true for SoU and HotU at one time, too.

...but we can still enjoy the new client for testing and gameplay.

NWN and DAO adventures at http://proleric.com/

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kamal
Bigger pie and Sou and Hotu stuff as already stated.
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Grymlorde

Just to confirm that if you save an existing module with the enhanced toolset, it will no longer run under the 1.69 game. The error message asks the player to update their copy of NWN.

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rogueknight333

I am not sure the situation with SOU and HoTU was quite the same, as they were absent for only a relatively short period of NWN's total history, and there was no real expectation that serious players of NWN would decline to purchase them at some point. Here, the distinction between original and Enhanced NWN is likely to be permanent, and there are already people complaining that what EE offers is not worth the price.

The lack of "forward" compatibility (i.e., modules made with the EE toolset being usable by the original NWN) is definitely going to be a nuisance, at a minimum. As a module builder, that might well require me at some point to maintain two different NWN installations so I can test and debug for players of both versions. I would furthermore have to keep building with the original toolset, since I have no desire to make the later Swordflight chapters unavailable to those who for whatever reason decline to purchase the EE. Of course if they are going to add new features to the toolset and scripting, there is no way that could be avoided.

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ShadowM

They have already added more functions to the scripting. I see this as the only issue really with EE. I use skywings/virusman toolsetextender which alow me to compile big core scripts and the new EE compiler cannot handle these scripts. I cannot just compile and drop back and forth because as Grymlorde pointed out and I found out once you do a change in the EE edition it will not load into the old toolset / toolset extender. So that leave me with they update their EE compiler or skywing / virusman update their toolset extender / compiler to be compatible with EE because with new script function calls I cannot just compile in a seperate directory.

Thing that have been fixed.

Preload of haks is in (gui of races has not been change and have not tested with custom base classes yet)

Creatures powers are back from when you possses them as a DM.

 

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Ancarion

There's an old trick for loading modules into older versions of the toolset. I'd never vouch for it not screwing the module up by doing it, but you can open the mod in a text editor and find the string 1.74, and change it to 1.69 The easiest way to find it is by searching for the string Mod_CacheNSSListResRef which is located on the same line. That might be completely unhelpful, and you surely won't be able to compile any scripts with the new 1.74 functions in 1.69, but it is do-able.


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Grymlorde

For those of us seeking a performance boost, I can say well done! I've spent several hours testing the most difficult areas of my (albeit incomplete) modules, and the performance is easily 300% better if not more. I can run TonyK's AI, horses, Q tilesets, a score of opponents, turn up all the graphics options to max, and still get no noticeable slowdowns at all! For my rig, this is a godsend! For $20, this is a steal! I most certainly hope that a lot of pre-existing bugs get squashed, but even if they don't, this version is totally worth it for me. No longer does The Witcher out-perform NWN for me. Now NWN outperforms The Witcher! With EE, I no longer have to worry about ambient NPCs, horses, and big combats.

tl;dr:  EE's performance boost kicks rocks!

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Jedijax

OH MY GOD! Grymlorde, if this works for my HIGHLY customized NWN with high poly models and hi-res textures, then it's the best news ever! It's my main issue with NWN! The goddamn onperceived/onspawned freezes and low-frame rates! I agree wholeheartedly! If this runs smoothly, I wouldn't bitch about anything else remaining un-fixed or being added!

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