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Newbie here, I have questions about creating modules

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Reinc
Newbie here, I have questions about creating modules

Which game is more customizable in terms of gameplay and content, NWN or NWN2? Maybe any of the Dragon Age games? I would like to make a module, but I need to know which toolset is better for customization towards tabletop D&D (I mean adding things like rules, spell components, abilities, classes and spells). What are the limits for customization in each of these games?

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kevL's

nwn2 is more nerve-wracking
nwn1 is more robust

what takes 1 month to complete in nwn1 takes 3 in nwn2 (/opinion)

both environments are complicated, but nwn2 moreso. It allows more 'stuff' and "looks better", but if you want to - you know - complete the project (your first nwn project?) i'd suggest Nwn1.

either choice is extremely customizable: emphasize *extremely* -- you wouldn't exhaust ideas with either platform for years, decades.

- choose Nwn2 only if you've played both games and feel substantially more drawn to it. That said, I'm sure many have gone straight for 2

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kamal

I'd say nwn1, and I say that as a nwn2 modder.

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Semper

Which game is more customizable in terms of gameplay and content, NWN or NWN2? Maybe any of the Dragon Age games?

first i would step aside from dragon age. while it's comparable with the customization of both nwn games, its by the far the most complicated and time consuming to work with. it's lacking a modding community of substantial size and there are almost no players left. getting into modding dragon age: origins is a fruitless endeavor nowadays.

second there's no "real" quantifiable difference in the amount of customization of nwn1 and its successor nwn2. the things you're talking about, mainly adding classes, spells and their components, are identically doable in both games via editing external files (.2das) and writing scripts. kevL's is right about the difference in time it will take you to finish an area. while nwn2 is worlds apart from nwn1's simplistic tile based structure, that freedom and grapical value is unevenly more time consuming.

to choose the right game is to follow your preferences. in my opinion nwn1 is geared towards multiplayer and dungeon mastered sessions. it's really fast to pump out new areas and ideas. in multiplayer the members of a party can roam around independently from each other and the size of modules and their loading times are almost non existant. it's not that you can't enjoy nwn1 as a singleplayer experience, but it's lacking. the missing control over your henchmen really hurts.

nwn2 is the "exact" opposite. in multiplayer it sucks that the whole party has to be in the same area. the aforementioned time consuming area creation also dictates a lot of preplanning. it's not as easy as in nwn1 to do a weekly gaming session when the workload takes a month in preparation. in exchange nwn2 is the better singleplayer game. you have full control over your companions, and there's even a party dialog ui. gone are the times where only the main character is able to converse with npcs.

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beirutnwn

I spent ageson the nwn arura toolset. 

got super excited to open the nwn2 toolset as soon as it came out. 

I tried to make it fuction and forseen a thousand limitations. 

Closed it.

Never opened it again

 

Age Of Mortals beirutnwn

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Reinc

Thanks for answers, everyone. I still want to know specifics about these games' limitations. For example, is there a limit to how many new 2da files can be added? Any other limits in terms of volume of new content?

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Shadooow

Try to be more specific. Tell us exactly what you want to do.

While NWN2 has more options namely around GUI modification, NWN1 has better NWNX support. NWNX is 3rd party platform that enables new functionalities and there are much more possibilities in NWN1 than in NWN2.

Basically the only things that NWN1 doesn't allow and NWN2 does are:

- easy custom visual effect creation
- GUI modification

If you don't look for exactly these two features than NWN1 is the choice.

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Reinc

I feel I need to point out that I do not care how difficult or time consuming one or other toolset is compared to others. I am asking specifically about their flexibility and technical/engine limitations. I also have to explain that, even though my end goal is one great big module, I am likely to end up producing several smaller modules as I learn, so advice from a "just to get it over with" viewpoint is not useful for me. Let me be the one who thinks about what I will and will not be able to finish.

The big module in question is going to be singleplayer, with a large party - this I can tell for sure already.

It is hard to be more specific because I have a whole lot of ideas, and I am currently at the stage when I consider what toolsets to use, and then I will build up from what they can and cannot do. In other words, I am not going to plan on having some awesome, awesome characters and dungeons, and on building my idea for a module around them, only to find out that they can't be put into the game, rendering my plan useless and a waste of time.

Here are a few more specific questions related to what I want to do (please answer them in form of comparison between the toolsets) :

-Could the game's rules be expanded with material from D&D 3.5/Pathfinder rulebooks (not core), and to what extent?

-Would it be possible to have (preferably invisible) timer for timed missions, both for separate battles and whole quests? Examples:1) you need to get out of a dungeon in less than 5 minutes before it collapses; 2) you need to save someone from bandits in 3 days, or else they are killed/sold.

-Can I use an overworld map with roaming and stationary enemies which you can either fight or hide from, as well as random encounters? Can I allow map monsters to ambush the player if your party fails to detect the monsters?

-Can I shift height level of certain parts of the battlefield during battle? Can I make it so specific areas of the battlefield do damage and/or instantly kill characters who stand on them, but only during certain times? This is needed for 3 types of scenarios: 1) several platforms float on lava/freezing water, they periodically sink and raise; 2) some defensive mechanism shoots a beam in one direction, then turns it off for a bit, then shoots it again, in a predictable pattern; 3) enemies destroy the bridge you are walking on, so you fall, except for those who have Fly/Feather Fall on (it is not necessary for those who fell to remain in the same area or to remain interactive).

-Is it possible to give flying creatures the ability to move three-dimensionally, and is it possible to build a 3D maze level that goes in all directions? If not, how close to these desired effects can a workaround be, so that gameplay effects in terms of numbers and interaction are the same, without actual movement in all directions?

-Is it possible to split a singleplayer party, so each team does their own thing in different locations (not necessarily simultaneously), and then make it as if they met at some previously specified place, with their inventory, hp, spells, etc. transferring according to the results of those separate missions?

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Proleric
Proleric's picture

You're going to get very similar answers for NWN1 and NWN2. Previous responses have explained the differences very clearly. 

I will answer for NWN1 but I imagine NWN2 is no different.

There's no known limit to the number of 2da files.

Known constraints are

16K files (of any sort) per hak
50 haks per module
100 tilesets per module
 
-Could the game's rules be expanded with material from D&D 3.5/Pathfinder rulebooks (not core), and to what extent?
 
Yes, to a large extent, if you're prepared to do a lot of work. Most of the rules are scripted, though some things are hard-coded. You'd have to make a detailed assessment rule by rule.

-Would it be possible to have (preferably invisible) timer for timed missions, both for separate battles and whole quests? Examples:1) you need to get out of a dungeon in less than 5 minutes before it collapses; 2) you need to save someone from bandits in 3 days, or else they are killed/sold.
 
Absolutely. I have timers in my modules, ranging from a door that closes in 5 seconds to a quest that times out after several weeks. Sub-seconds timers are available if required.

-Can I use an overworld map with roaming and stationary enemies which you can either fight or hide from, as well as random encounters? Can I allow map monsters to ambush the player if your party fails to detect the monsters?
 
Yes. In NWN1 the overworld maps are a relatively small outdoor areas made of tiles. It's possible to make a crude world map which shows the player their current location. That can even be used for navigation from one area to another, but encounters occur in discrete areas.

-Can I shift height level of certain parts of the battlefield during battle? Can I make it so specific areas of the battlefield do damage and/or instantly kill characters who stand on them, but only during certain times? This is needed for 3 types of scenarios: 1) several platforms float on lava/freezing water, they periodically sink and raise; 2) some defensive mechanism shoots a beam in one direction, then turns it off for a bit, then shoots it again, in a predictable pattern; 3) enemies destroy the bridge you are walking on, so you fall, except for those who have Fly/Feather Fall on (it is not necessary for those who fell to remain in the same area or to remain interactive).
 
Terrain height and walkmesh is fixed. However, beams and placeables are not. Also, there are invisible barriers that can be toggled. So, if you make the location walkable, you can script beams and barriers that temporarily block movement, appear to throw bodies around, injure or kill.

-Is it possible to give flying creatures the ability to move three-dimensionally, and is it possible to build a 3D maze level that goes in all directions? If not, how close to these desired effects can a workaround be, so that gameplay effects in terms of numbers and interaction are the same, without actual movement in all directions?
 
Walkmesh is strictly 2D. Only one height is permitted at a location (so bridge-over-path-under is forbidden). There are one-shot animations for creatures flying away and landing. A 3D maze is possible, but only as an array of areas. Travelling up and down can be enabled by scripting player tools or unique power items.

-Is it possible to split a singleplayer party, so each team does their own thing in different locations (not necessarily simultaneously), and then make it as if they met at some previously specified place, with their inventory, hp, spells, etc. transferring according to the results of those separate missions?
 
I probably don't understand the question. If it is single player, there is only one player, plus companions. My modules have sections in which the companions go off and do other stuff, meeting up with the player later, but the player doesn't share their experience. You could script it so that the player temporarily appears to be the companion, I guess.
 
 

 

NWN and DAO adventures at http://proleric.com/

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kevL's
  • -Here are a few more specific questions related to what I want to do (please answer them in form of comparison between the toolsets) :

will answer only from an nwn2 perspective, haven't used the 1 toolset for nearly a decade.
 

  • -Could the game's rules be expanded with material from D&D 3.5/Pathfinder rulebooks (not core), and to what extent?

yes, but as Shadooow says, specifics?

  • -Would it be possible to have (preferably invisible) timer for timed missions, both for separate battles and whole quests? Examples:1) you need to get out of a dungeon in less than 5 minutes before it collapses; 2) you need to save someone from bandits in 3 days, or else they are killed/sold.

yes.

  • -Can I use an overworld map with roaming and stationary enemies which you can either fight or hide from, as well as random encounters? Can I allow map monsters to ambush the player if your party fails to detect the monsters?

yes, at least in nwn2. It specifically added overland-map functionality with SoZ (2nd expansion).

  • -Can I shift height level of certain parts of the battlefield during battle? Can I make it so specific areas of the battlefield do damage and/or instantly kill characters who stand on them, but only during certain times? This is needed for 3 types of scenarios: 1) several platforms float on lava/freezing water, they periodically sink and raise; 2) some defensive mechanism shoots a beam in one direction, then turns it off for a bit of time, then shoots it again, in a predictable pattern; 3) enemies destroy the bridge you are walking on, so you fall, except for those who have Fly/Feather Fall on (it is not necessary for those who fell to remain in the same area or to remain interactive).

yes/no. The walkmesh itself can't be changed midgame (ie, I don't know of any way in Nwn2) -- short of jumping the party into another, nearly identical area but with a different walkmesh baked.
1) it could probably be faked by shifting the position of an ice-floe placeable (.. not sure that they exist as a resource though) up/down in a series of increments, and jumping any characters on it up/down also. (this could be tricky... but then, most of what we're talking about will be tricky in 2 and probly 1 also)
2) yes.
3) yes, but again not as 3-dimensional as could be hoped. Eg, make a bridge with pits on either side; the walkmesh on the bridge is raised, the walkmesh in the pits is down low. When the bridge gets 'destroyed' jump whoever was on it into one of the pits (or wherever). Then destroy the bridge-placeable and replace it with a broken bridge (again, not sure that the resources for that exist -- though they can be created from scratch with 3rd party programs)

note: Nwn2 doesn't have Fly/Featherfall spells.

  • -Is it possible to give flying creatures the ability to move three-dimensionally, and is it possible to build a 3D maze level that goes in all directions? If not, how close to these desired effects can a workaround be, so that gameplay effects in terms of numbers and interaction are the same, without actual movement in all directions?

no. The walkmesh used for pathfinding is 2-dimensional. Any kind of flying has to be faked. A bridge, eg, cannot be walked both over *and* under without using a (likely noticeably kludgy) 'jump' mechanism. (screen-fades can help)

  • -Is it possible to split a singleplayer party, so each team does their own thing in different locations (not necessarily simultaneously), and then make it as if they met at some previously specified place, with their inventory, hp, spells, etc. transferring according to the results of those separate missions?

a thing no one's mentioned yet: nwn2 uses either modules* (this is stock for nwn1) or Campaigns (which are one or more modules grouped together, and is preferred in nwn2, for increased functionality but not necessary). Basically, only 1 module can be loaded at a time, so all playing characters have to be in that module [from what I've heard, nwn1 can sync multiple servers with different modules loaded, when using something like NWNx2, which as Shadooow mentions increases Nwn1's modability ... a lot -- nwn2 has NWNx4 but it's not nearly as extensive as NWNx2 and hasn't been worked on for years as far as i'm aware]. With that said, yes, but in Nwn2 you'll probably have to re-write several stock scripts/functions that deliberately try to keep the player-party together.


*module: one or more "areas" that have a thematic association. An area is what you might expect: the map (and workings) of a city, a forest, etc.

 

ps. I should also note that changing any *fundamental* combat mechanics is, uh, fraught w/ peril. eg changing stacking rules (i believe nwn1 allows many bonuses to stack (3E rules), while nwn2 doesn't (3.5E rules)). eg allowing attack bonuses/defenses to go above 20 (afaiaa) ... changing the mechanics of stock Feats and Action-modes, as much of this stuff has been left hard-coded at least in Nwn2, and trying to change it may or may not = fail

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Semper

The big module in question is going to be singleplayer, with a large party - this I can tell for sure already.

back at square one with the big question you should answer by yourself: is it important to have full control over the members of your party or not? only nwn2 fulfills this criteria. without going into specifics the answers to the rest of your questions are almost identical for both games.

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Shadooow

Proleric answered most of it, I try to be more specific:


-Could the game's rules be expanded with material from D&D 3.5/Pathfinder rulebooks (not core), and to what extent?
 

Yes but quite a lot of things will be hardcoded and will require you to use NWNX. My nwnx_patch plugin that is part of community patch 1.72 is specifically designed to bring functionalities to overcome hardcoded restrictions and enable some rule changes, but you always come across something thats hardcoded and no existing plugin allows you to change it. However, if you learn how to mod nwn with NWNX possibilities are almost endless...

-Can I use an overworld map with roaming and stationary enemies which you can either fight or hide from, as well as random encounters? Can I allow map monsters to ambush the player if your party fails to detect the monsters?

Actually this is not very well doable in NWN1. NWN2 allows this. In NWN1 there are some issues if you try to do this. I created a tileset that can be used as a bacground for worldmap (unfortunately I don't see it on vault, it wasn't migrated yet I think). Then you can use these placeables to make it look living. And then mini PC models created by me again. But those issues are: some of the mini pc models contain bugs like bad head position, polygon gaps, trying to "use" mini placeable with mini PC models can seriously lag game due to the pathfinding issues (game was not build to handle so precise positioning) and weapons doesn't scale properly on mini pc models which then looks really funky. Most builders using "worldmap" uses normal models which is also weird... but if you are ok with that most issues goes away.


-Is it possible to give flying creatures the ability to move three-dimensionally, and is it possible to build a 3D maze level that goes in all directions? If not, how close to these desired effects can a workaround be, so that gameplay effects in terms of numbers and interaction are the same, without actual movement in all directions?

You can't go up, although there are workarounds to climb/jump that uses animations, but thats usually done by using an ability on the place you want to go and then your character performs animation and is teleported there. Flying creatures related, I ve spent quite a lot of time trying to allow flying creatures to pass normally nonwalkable terrain such as water. One option would be to set water terrain as walkable, however that allows to run on water to all characters so you would need to make sure non flying creatures cannot enter it (either by modifying tiles walkmesh or via triggers painted in toolset which will teleport player back). Second option is NWNX but I was not able to make this work. I know its doable but so far nobody maybe except Sinfar (who won't share it) was able to make this feature. I will certainly look into this option in future again but currently I have other priorities.

-Is it possible to split a singleplayer party, so each team does their own thing in different locations (not necessarily simultaneously), and then make it as if they met at some previously specified place, with their inventory, hp, spells, etc. transferring according to the results of those separate missions?

Singleplayer = one player, one party only, henchmans must be in party. You can however play any normally singleplayer module in multiplayer either by running nwserver or by LAN option inside game client which creates server without need to run it externally. In such game players are not restricted to single party and can do quests on their own. HOWEVER! Many singleplayer modules might not be coded for that properly and thus you might run into issues like: other players unable to finish quest, rewards/journal updates are not given to the player finishing quest but to main player. This is because many lazy builders uses GetFirstPC() in their scripts and not the correct function like GetPCSpeaker(). But that would be already-existing-module-specific issue, if you build new module you can make sure this doesn't happen.

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Shadooow

Also, a lot of depends how much precise you want to be. There are always some not so perfect workarounds that can do the job as well...

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sherincall

An important thing not mentioned: NWN1 has a native Linux client, NWN2 doesn't, though I've heard people were able to get it working with Wine.

 

And a second important thing that was touched is NWNX, or rather NWNCX if you're doing single player. If you are proficient with C++ (or C) and have basic understanding of OpenGL you can do a lot of the stuff that are not possible normally. Few examples:

  • Implement a custom world map in any way you like
  • Add party members, Baldur's Gate style. Clicking on their portrait takes control of them as the main character.
  • Maybe also selecting multiple at once, BG style. This one would be pretty hard, though
  • Custom minigames ingame
  • Changing the hardcoded rules. Or hardcoding your own.

You could even do the 3D maze idea, though that could take about as much time as it would writing such a game from scratch.

The flexibility is there, but it takes a lot more skill and time.

 

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LemonWizard
LemonWizard's picture

"you should answer by yourself: is it important to have full control over the members of your party or not? only nwn2 fulfills this criteria."

I second this, you should really consider this aspect before most other things. Also, reading your questions it looks like you intend to make a lot of encounters heavily dependant on terrain hazards... you might want your players to have full control on the party in order to make such encounters interesting. It's not much of a tactical challenge when the henchmen AI keeps running into scripted traps or hazardous terrain which a human player would avoid, it could end up being rather frustrating.

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Reinc

Thanks for answers again.

-I probably don't understand the question. If it is single player, there is only one player, plus companions.
That's what I meant. Single-player, with NPC party members. If I can only control one character, I imagine it should go like this: when party splits, you either take turns having control of assigned team leader for each of the parts of your party, or you can choose the option to automatically decide outcome of the mission depending on stats, abilities and inventory of the team you send, which are compared against challenges they are expected to face.

-is it important to have full control over the members of your party or not?
Yes, it is, but I could reconsider, if NWN1 is vastly superior to NWN2 in other regards.

-yes, but as Shadooow says, specifics?
Can't be more specific than that this early, sorry.

-Also, a lot of depends how much precise you want to be. There are always some not so perfect workarounds that can do the job as well...
I am pretty relaxed in terms of sacrifising visuals. I think I would draw the line at a point when I have to sit through long loading screens every time anything in the terrain changes, and I cannot see what happens at all, with no effects and no animations for either the objects or the characters. Imagine: just a loading screen, and then words pop up: "you fell down". I would probably scrap the idea for an area instead of using something so crude.

-it looks like you intend to make a lot of encounters heavily dependant on terrain hazards
Not really. It's just these encounters with hazards are the ones I ask about because I don't know if they are possible.

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kevL's

re. Single-player, multiple characters in party (this is nwn2 perspective)

SP: 1 OwnedCharacter (that's a tech-term wrt the nwn2 toolset)

Companions (i don't believe there's a strict corollary for these in nwn1) are characters that can be either pre-fabricated, or created by the player. The latter, i believe, is an SoZ-added functionality. SoZ-created characters are called CreatedCharacters (ie, not the OwnedPC, which is created but not as a tech-term Created .. y, i know :\ ) and they are differentiated from pre-fabricated companions only by a hard-coded flag that's set for each companion depending on how they came into the game-world.

Companions go on a "roster" and can be manipulated in various & many ways. They are nearly identical to OwnedCharacters in that they can be "possessed" or controlled directly by the player. A player can, for example, tell his PC to stand ground, then possess a Companion and play the module with any of the companions as his/her lead instead of the original PC. And in turn tell the companion to stand ground and re-possess his/her mainPC, sometimes referred to as the truePC. (however, I think that a/any companion can be scripted as non-possessible, etc.)

in addition to the PC and the Companions, nwn1 and 2 share the concept of Associates:
- henchmen
- familiars
- animal companions (these are not companions per se, but Associates.)
- dominated creatures
- summoned creatures

There are rules that pertain to each associate-type. Only some of those rules can be worked around. EDIT: and I believe there are some differences between the two games. not sure, but off the top of my head: different rules for Familiar deaths, and iirc Animal Companions can be possessed in Nwn1 but not 2.


Nwn1 has come up with a method of possessing henchmen - perhaps someone can chime in on how extensively it's been implemented.... Since in Nwn2, Companions are very well implemented (though confusing as blip unless/until their mechanisms are understood)

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kevL's
  • If I can only control one character, I imagine it should go like this: when party splits, you either take turns having control of assigned team leader for each of the parts of your party,

i'm not sure if your criteria is that any character can be possessed to lead a team or not (for a bit on that, see my post above). But if the team-leader should always be the OwnedPC, that's what the Nwn2 roster is designed for. Companions can be kicked out of the party, made unselecteable (in the Roster menu) or selectable, and forced into the player-party, etc etc. They can be spawned, despawned, given a hang-out spot to go to when not in the party (but still on the roster), or they can be kicked right off the roster altogether. The player's primary character must always be in-game and in-party, however (although that character can be left behind, *possibly* even in a not-loaded area -- i'd have to check that..).

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Shadooow

That's what I meant. Single-player, with NPC party members. If I can only control one character, I imagine it should go like this: when party splits, you either take turns having control of assigned team leader for each of the parts of your party, or you can choose the option to automatically decide outcome of the mission depending on stats, abilities and inventory of the team you send, which are compared against challenges they are expected to face.

Option would be to use my NWNX plugin. It allows to possess any creature (but its only recommended for henchmens). However the problem here is that if you are creating a singleplayer, using NWNX would then mean player must download NWNCX and my plugin (or community patch 1.72 where plugin is included) and tell them to run game with it. And players are quite distrustful towards NWNCX.

EDIT: also note my plugin only grants a script command to possess creature nothing else, you would still need to build a "framework" around it such as custom feat to possess henchman etc. So far nobody published any scripting package using my nwnx plugin.

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Reinc

i'm not sure if your criteria is that any character can be possessed to lead a team or not

Yes, that's the plan. Your main character is a captain of some force, who has multiple characters under his command. He can assign any of these characters as his leutenants (although rank separation is not necessary), so they can lead the team if needed.

Let me give an example: you split your party in three groups: the first group attacks an enemy fortification from the front, drawing enemy forces to itself; the second group goes to attack some important strategic position that is needed to take control of in order to take the fort, but is too heavily guarded unless reinforcements from the fort are cut off; the third group stays at your city to guard the lord, because he expects an assassination attempt on him.

So, you control each of the three teams separately. Naturally, your main character can only be in one team, because it is assumed that the events are happenning simultaneously. Preferably, I would like to be able to control each of these teams, with each character being under my control (in style of Baldur's Gate or NWN2). Being able to control only one character in each of these teams is not desired, but I could think of a way to handle that. The worst option is only having one party that cannot be split, and whenever you want to send a few party members somewhere, you just get a dialogue where you decide who goes to do what generic task for how much time, then the game calculates how well they did and in what condition they return, if they return at all.

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Shadooow

This would be possibly with my plugin, assuming you create custom faction for all those henchmans.

Henchman 1 - customfaction1
Henchman 2 - customfaction2
Henchman 3 - customfaction3
Henchman 4 - customfaction4
Henchman 5 - customfaction5

Then, if you possess one of these henchmans you will automatically see in party only those in same faction. That means, you won't see the original player character you "left behind". You should be able to invite other henchmans to your party, but I assume there will be some issues:

1) I don't think its possible to enable AI on the original player character (the onlyway I can think of would be to set him creature scripts instead of 'default', which my plugin doesn't allow and if its for singleplayer its the only plugin available - all other plugins works only for server).

2) not sure what happens when you add henchman from faction 2 when you are in faction 1, probably his faction will get changed to 1 which you would need to change back if you release him from party

I don't think NWN2 has possibilities for what you want, even though it has native henchman features like their controll.Eith

Either way. From what you just wrote, unless you have a team that helps you, you will spend months just to code scripts needed to tackle with these features/ruleset changes. I think it would be better to focus more on the actual module.

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Tarot Redhand

@Reinc Having read through all the posts so far in this thread one thought struck me. Have you actually bought and played either game? The reason I ask is twofold. First the impression I get from the questions that you are asking is that you have not. If this is the case I would say do so now. Asking others for their opinions and advice is all very well but the only real way to know which game would suit what you want to achieve is to actually use them. There could well be something that everybody and their dogs think is the best thing since sliced bread while you absolutely hate that particular feature. At the end of the day only you can truly know what your vision is so play both games and their expansions and then decide, possibly with further help from the people on here, which game best suits your needs.

TR

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Reinc

I think it would be better to focus more on the actual module.

Sure, but I needed to choose which toolset to build the module with first! If what you meant is that I have to start building areas, quests and dialogues first, before doing scripts and new features, then I already knew this.

Have you actually bought and played either game?

Of course I did play through them both, with all expansions. But the only significant difference I could percieve is that combat animations and inventory icons are much better in NWN1, so I decided to ask those who have deeper understanding of both games.

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Semper

Let me give an example: you split your party in three groups: the first group attacks an enemy fortification from the front, drawing enemy forces to itself; the second group goes to attack some important strategic position that is needed to take control of in order to take the fort, but is too heavily guarded unless reinforcements from the fort are cut off; the third group stays at your city to guard the lord, because he expects an assassination attempt on him. So, you control each of the three teams separately.

well, your idea sounds very ambitious and complicated. neither game is really made for this kind of gameplay. perhaps you should start small, like building the starting area in both games with a quest and dialog and go from there. stick with the toolset you like better working with. after all you will spend the coming months together.

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kevL's

um, i agree w/ Semper (and Shadooow) on the multi-tasking party idea. I mean, even a master designer in either game would think twice before attempting to implement such.

in Nwn2, your idea is completely possible *iff* the action all takes place in a single area. Anything beyond that is, at this moment, a big diceroll. Even then, deliberate steps re. coding should be implemented to prevent an accidental Follow command, broadcast from one group to another, that would cause them to all try to regroup in one spot.

to me, it's feasible to do the diversion/attack groups in a single area. Then do the guard-the-lord scene either before or after.

(note that henchmen can be assigned to a Companion rather than the PC, in nwn2 -- this is in fact done on the battlements in the OC when Black Garius storms the keep)
 

  • after all you will spend the coming months years together.

corrected that for you :)

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Semper
  • after all you will spend the coming months years together.

corrected that for you :)

what i really had in mind was that after a few months one-man projects of this ambitious extent have a good chance of being put to sleep. i didn't feel like being the negative nancy. that's why i suggested to play around in both toolsets to get a feeling for how much time one needs to get stuff done, not talking about the needed polish and bug fixing. that's a good way to get back into reality.

but you're absolutely right ;)

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