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D20 Modern Suggestions and Comments' thread

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Psychopompos
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D20 Modern Suggestions and Comments' thread

Hello,

I thought interesting to create a thread in which we can notice flawed D20 content or suggest new content for a next version.

 

Flaws / Errors in the mod:

  • In the tlk, the description of the Soldier Prestige Class is broken (several lines lack their first few letters)
  • Several items' blueprints' name and descriptions contain the native content of the field (item's default name and NWN lore text) in the non-English parts
  • A lot of guns' models are either glitched or unfinished
  • For the handguns parts, "Bottom 1-3" seems to be intended to create a Beretta 93R, but the thing is too wide to be usable
  • The "Modern Weapons" item's category is empty, all of the D20 weapons' blueprints have been created in the native "Weapons" one
  • The USP gun doesn't have exactly the same name in the "handguns" and "dualwielded guns" sections of the toolset
  • The Mac Ingram M10 has the description of the Skorpion and uses 9mm ammunitions despite being mentioned as a .32 gun in the description. It's also located as a handgun, despite belonging to the submachine guns weapon type
  • The Ruger Service Six is described as a "Colt Detective Special", which is a different revolver
  • The Sawed-Off Shotgun lacks its dualwield counterparts
  • The Skorpion fires 9mm bullets despite its description, which considers it as a .32 caliber gun (both weapons of the gun exists, but the weapon's model is the .32 one - cf the magazine's shape). It's also located as a handgun, despite belonging to the submachine guns weapon type
  • The AKS74U is actually a German StG44. Nor the AKS74U neither the StG44 used 7.62 ammunitions, anyway
  • The robes armour parts which represent coats and jackets aren't displayed on female characters
  • The parking tileset crashes the toolset if you trie to resize an area which uses it

 

I also suggest the following new content:

 

Also, those alterations to the current contents could be a good idea:

  • A cleaver model as a handaxe weapon class (in addition to the makeshift weapon and the short sword)
  • A fireaxe model as a greataxe weapon class (in addition to the one which is its own weapon class)
  • A P90 model as a submachine gun weapon class (the current one is a longarm, and the wielder's position is awkward)
  • A couple of the "heavy weapons" are rifles, which would have been more fitting as longarms
  • Providing alternative files (2da, tlk, models, and textures) with the mod, to allow builders to reverse overhaul the overhauled kukris, in order to potentially add the files in a top hak to gain again the native kukris instead of the lightsabers. If you're making a non-futuristic D20 Modern module, kukris can be a useful feature
  • Mixing the gasmask with the non-futuristic military helmets, and adding a "helmet" gasmask worn without visual helmet (I'm not sure if I'm clear; it would be something like this)
  • Reworking the naked dynamic characters' models crotch and female's chest, to replace the native underwears by something more fitting a modern setting
  • New item categories which are dualwield submachine guns
  • More guns and ammo blueprints
  • Increasing the guns' maximum ammo capacity to at least 50 instead of 35. The limit of 35 is too low for some of the available weapons (Minimi, Minigun, P90, etc)
  • Creating more headgear (flat caps, berets, stetsons, fedora hats, WWII helmets)
  • Creating a few handguns which are a reskinned copy of the "Han Solo blasters" (Middle 24-1, 24-2, 22-3, 24-3, and 24-4), reworked to look like realistic Mauser C-96
  • New tiles for the "Modern Interior" tilesets, which fit the existing tile but are deprived of pre-generated furnitures
  • More cars (like the DeLorean) as usable "creatures", instead of being placeables only
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Vanya Mia

Useful idea! I'm currently (slowly but surely) working on a new version, and this will help. Particularly in identification of the weapon models, as they came without names and some are very much a guess on my part. A couple of comments that may assist in this.

One thing to bear in mind is that to a degree we held old models, so that there could be backwards compatibility - or at least ease of transition - from version 1.4. This is pretty well responsible for the glitchy models not being removed, and unless someone with more experience than I wants to recreate the models then that's unlikely to change. This also accounts for the mismatching top and bottoms which are a throw back to a time when combined not single models, were used. I may take them out, not decided yet.

Be sure you have the very latest versions of the module or ERF files too, and no additional haks are interfering, as this :

  • The "Modern Weapons" item's category is empty, all of the D20 weapons' blueprints have been created in the native "Weapons" one"

means you probably have one or the other of those problems. All modern templates are under a dedicated category in the pallette and definitely are in the modules I'm currently using.

If you find a problem with a template, or any other aspect of the system, then it helps me for you to provide clear details as to which it is so that it can be identified for change. Though some models, particularly weapons, are inaccurate simply to drop as close a version as possible on a template that is taken from the D20 rule book.

Some things are deliberate decisions, like there not being a dual wield of a sawn off shotgun or a submachine gun, and will stay that way. I recently noticed you can dual weild chainsaws too, and that'll change when I get around to it!

There are a lot of alternative sex and phenotype models missing, which I'm currently trawling for and trying to fix.

I've permission to add a couple of tilesets but am hesitating to do so, as this makes the "core" haks much larger and they can readily be added at the builder's discretion as a separate hak. Some of those are also overwriting, as they are reskins for those already in the haks. A list of useful tilesets might be a better idea? Also aware of the trouble with the Parking tileset, but as yet haven't sourced a solution.

Removing furniture from tilesets is something I've looked at too, however there are a couple of issues. One is that the furniture is built into the walkmesh of the floor, which has to be changed, and with my modelling ability I've never managed to get it right. Another is the time consuming nature of placing furniture as a builder, to the point that I'm considering attempting to make some common theme rooms for the spacehip interior similar to how they are provided in the UDP ones, or setting up groups of models such as a fitted kitchen or stacks of crates. Thirdly is that massive amounts of placeables can make an area file size huge, extremely laggy in game, particularly for a large area such as a fully filled warehouse or supermarket.

I did shuffle some "melee" weapon models around, or duplicate them, but may look again. That said as the idea of improvised weapons is part of the D20 system and while yes, a cleaver or fire-axe can be nasty, it's isn't designed as a weapon. Those again are decisions I took when upgrading to version 2.0.

I'm updating CEP compatibility but it's not likely to be as worth it as the work is proving. Most of what is in the clothing that we don't already have is either very setting specific (e.g. Romano Greek stuff) or multiple versions "adult" outfits that don't (in my opinion) actually add a lot to the options except in very specific uses. As CEP have once again overwritten 2da locations used by D20 to incorporate them I'm only changing the model data to include them where I feel it's worthwhile - and I've never found 40 different versions of naked breasts that usable. :P  I will probably be changing the base model's underwear in both sexes, though.

Providing alternatives is not likely to happen, unless I decide to do an adaptation myself for my own modules. Sorry, but it's just too much work. It is, however, why the haks are now provided as separate entities so that people can just pick out what they want, like using the classes in a fantasy setting. I have thought of picking up the kukri models and putting them in as daggers though.

Having a full head gas mask is the only way you can account for the fact that NWN helmets replace the head. Partial face masks used on PCs change the hair too, so any head covering item has to cover the whole head. If they are created as cloaks or neck models, like the hats, then they don't move with the head. Acceptable for a hat, perhaps, but not for a mask. That said, one such as described would be useful for NPCs, as would the creation of new types of hat, but is unfortunately beyond my modelling ability.

Larger ammo capacity actually affects all ranged weapons without a massive rewrite of the weapons system so while I see your point on the miniguns it's low on the list - as while realistic the delay between shots you get in NWN (even when using auto firing) means you rarely need to reload on a 35 capacity magazine.

Creature vehicles are being expanded, though again there are issues with the walkmeshes. Another thing I plan to try and do is get the relative size of vehicles more sensible.

Hope that answers some questions. More suggestions are welcome!

"I took Skill Focus: Craft Disturbing Mental Image as my feat last level." Belkar, OOTS

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Psychopompos
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Some things are deliberate decisions, like there not being a dual wield of a sawn off shotgun or a submachine gun, and will stay that way.

I see your point, but the issue with the sawn-off shotgun is that, because it lacks dualwield variants, trying to dualwield it deletes both guns from your inventory. I have an idea to avoid this issue: create dualwield / off-hand sawn-off shotguns blueprints, but with a race / class / etc condition that makes it actually unusable in the module. Thus, if you try to dualwield it, the gun is immediately unequipped but not removed from your inventory.

By the way, you could add something similar to the dualwield Desert Eagle, with something like "Class: Strong / Tough", as trying to fire such a gun with one in each hand would probably just break you wrist. ^^

 

Removing furniture from tilesets is something I've looked at too, however there are a couple of issues. One is that the furniture is built into the walkmesh of the floor, which has to be changed, and with my modelling ability I've never managed to get it right.

CEP adds areas without furnitures in the City Interior tileset. If you have the autorization, maybe you could just reskin those furnitere-less tiles to make them match with the Modern Interior tileset?

 

Another is the time consuming nature of placing furniture as a builder, to the point that I'm considering attempting to make some common theme rooms for the spacehip interior similar to how they are provided in the UDP ones, or setting up groups of models such as a fitted kitchen or stacks of crates. Thirdly is that massive amounts of placeables can make an area file size huge, extremely laggy in game, particularly for a large area such as a fully filled warehouse or supermarket.

Pertinent point, but having both empty and pregenerated furnitured tiles gives more freedom to modders than having just the pregenerated ones. By the way, adding thematic features to the Spaceship tileset in addition to the empty rooms is a great idea.

 

Be sure you have the very latest versions of the module or ERF files too, and no additional haks are interfering, as this :

  • The "Modern Weapons" item's category is empty, all of the D20 weapons' blueprints have been created in the native "Weapons" one"

means you probably have one or the other of those problems. All modern templates are under a dedicated category in the pallette and definitely are in the modules I'm currently using.

It actually was because I used an obsolete version of the D20 Module when I wrote my post (some of the blueprint's gun-related errors noted in my opening post are fixed, too). My bad.

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BenevolentDevil

First off, Thank you so much fo rtaking up this mantle so many lost years later in NWN's life. 
  I think Modern/Furturistic ( or combos of Cyberpunk/technomagic things) will help bring NWN back to "life" in our game community.  ( Why?  Everyone is tired and bored of the same old content , PWs that are huge hak extensive and "social/ERP" based,  or those that are ultra restrictive to "canon" material, or simply sit empty and not used. ) 

  I like the prospect of ... new ways to expereince the game.  New Role-Playing oppurtunities.  
As I am not interested in Single player, at all ... but more of a PW " sandbox" style.   
  The prospect I can play a private Investigator,  or a Low life Thug trying to survive on the streets , yakuza Crime Boss, janet the Coffee Shop barista , or even joe-shmo the guy that just happened to survive the Infection that made everyone zombies ...  lol , the possibilities is what hits it home for me. 

Some of the "included" content in the Modern 2.1 haks in the example Modules, I don't understand ... 

What is the difference in Credit Card merchant an dregular merchant?  ( especially I did not see a CC at all.)  What are the Coins for? can you just not use default "gold" as currency? 
Radios, PDAs,  all those "extras" ar ethey just models or do they do stuff already scripted into the module? 
  Making weapons .. I really wanted more melee weapons in my PW , I like the prospect of "improvized" weapons , but at the same time ... realistically who is going to use improvized weapons?  New players whom can't affford nice weapons ...  but the "drawback" is, new players are going to get kille dusing them with -4 penalties.  But I notice dadding them ... I did not hav ethe Modern damage System level 1 text in them.  
That make sme wonder, what is a modern damage system compared to NWN damage system? 

  Really needs some in game documentation on how to set up your character for play, once you get a DM to put your BIC file in for you ...  I've been playing with the haks for a week, and just today discovered the AP and Action in the radial dial.  
Reload and Auto fire too.  
Skill checks, ect ... are very cluttered in that one menu convo ,  for those players ( whom will be many I think) not familiar with d20 Modern Rules, aren't going to know what skills do what, or even which to roll for always, or what group those specific skills are in.  

Also, what gives with default damage on resting?  
Changing clothes also gives negative attributes or defauult penalties that do not go away unless resting.  Which damages you. 

Other than all of that, it's neat to discover and figure out the tilesets ...  I'm looking forward to what pops up next ,and me using this for my PW/Semi-PW needs. 
  
I would request some placable parts though , like tall and long "stacked crashed vehicles" you could use to dress up junkyard areas, even use as walls or make a junk maze out of. 
 

 

 

 

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Vanya Mia

"What is the difference in Credit Card merchant an dregular merchant?  ( especially I did not see a CC at all.)  What are the Coins for? can you just not use default "gold" as currency?"

You can work with merchants using the normal system though the D20 Modern module is designed with options to provide a modern feel. The option that works with the purchasing system from the setting manual, which uses "Wealth" rather than the normal gold which includes the PnP concept of time taken to find goods and services so limits the frequency you can buy things as well as the cost. . The coin merchant is set up to provide a different method in that the includes "real" currency as an inventory item which is converted to gold when opening a merchants inventory, but has weight and also allows you to set a value of items where 1 gold is equivalent to, say, a penny. The credit card is similar but the amount of gold the PC possesses is stored as a variable on the card and removes the need for "currency" at all.

 
"Radios, PDAs,  all those "extras" ar ethey just models or do they do stuff already scripted into the module?"

Some have models but most are just icons, and again some have purposes scripted in. For example there are many items, such as toolkits and climbing equipment, where skill rolls are reduced if a PC does not possess one. Others are purely for flavour, such as the PDAs, where a DM might require a PC to own one before they can perform certain tasks. Naturally those effects could be scripted in if the builder desires.

"Making weapons .. I really wanted more melee weapons in my PW , I like the prospect of "improvized" weapons , but at the same time ... realistically who is going to use improvized weapons?  New players whom can't affford nice weapons ...  but the "drawback" is, new players are going to get kille dusing them with -4 penalties."

There is a feat which allows PCs to use "improvised weapons" without penalty. Improvised weapons are again part of the standard setting and designed for situations where perhaps they have lost or had no weapons - plane crash in the jungle perhaps for a survival theme - in which case they would be handy. There are a lot of templates but naturally you can either remove or adjust the penalty if you don't want to include the option. Just be sure to let players know so they don't waste a feat.

"But I notice dadding them ... I did not hav ethe Modern damage System level 1 text in them. That make sme wonder, what is a modern damage system compared to NWN damage system?"

The modern damage system adds to rather than replaces the NWN one. It's intended that wounds are seen as more like an accumulation of small injuries and allows for the "massive critical" effect, that simulates a severe head injury perhaps, and kills outright. Improvised weapons could be considered unbalanced enough to allow it. It definitely would seem odd to be one-shotted by a person carrying a fish slice! 

"Really needs some in game documentation on how to set up your character for play, once you get a DM to put your BIC file in for you ...  I've been playing with the haks for a week, and just today discovered the AP and Action in the radial dial. Reload and Auto fire too."

It's simply too large to include in game, though the feats and skills all have proper descriptions, and as they have to set up a character before game it's expected that the DM shares the documents with the PCs to do so. All of what you suggest is included in the guide.


"Skill checks, ect ... are very cluttered in that one menu convo ,  for those players ( whom will be many I think) not familiar with d20 Modern Rules, aren't going to know what skills do what, or even which to roll for always, or what group those specific skills are in." 

Back to my suggestion about all parties reading the guide before playing. It's all in there. The conversation is based on the DMFI system but echoes the D20 Modern names, and unavoidably long as a result, but you might like to check out the "on chat" system that's a little simpler to access though does require you to understand what you are asking for when typing.

"Also what gives with default damage on resting?"

Again, a normal part of a PnP system where you do not get all your hit points back on resting, just a proportion. So while you initially get all of them back the system damages you down to reflect that approach. It can be removed by adjusted the module on rest script.

 
"Changing clothes also gives negative attributes or defauult penalties that do not go away unless resting.  Which damages you."

The whole of the system is derrived to account for things such as using specialist diving equipment without training. These should clear when you change out of the clothes again but really shouldn't go away if you rest if they are still being worn. Give me a specific example and I'll try to reproduce it, and if necessary correct it.

New stuff is being added all of the time so you might find new options available with further updates.

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BenevolentDevil

 You say Guide, ... i sthat something in game to look at?  Or something external I'm obviously missing?  
I found a WIKI online, but I do not think it was specific to NWN at all, lol.  

I think I see what you are saying though.  

I didn't realize D20 Modern was so far away from 3.0 NWN in those ways. 
Neat still.... 

Mostly, I wanted modernized tilesets, creatures ( I needed robots and andriods ) , and of course guns ... 

My "idea" ... is a semi-futuristic PW, where things aren;t great. Pollutants, Nuclear waste/disasters , and viruses have mutated creatures. Humanity and Metahumans ( Elves, Halfling, Dwarves, Half-Orcs) are mutated humans, not long lived races. ) is struggling.  Cities are overpopulated, slummy ... street life is hard and tough if not already rich or well educated ... 
Most folk, get "sucked into" some life of criminal activity , trying to just survive/get by. 
Out in the wilds ... mutated creatures , very dangerous. Toxic levels also dangers.   The "wilds" are harder to survive in, than cities. 
Some have turned to Cannibalism to survive ... those are the worst. Scum of the scum... 
 

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Vanya Mia

The d20modernmanual_v2.1.pdf on the project hak page has full information, though bear in mind the system is still incomplete for the Techie and all the VFX classes (because of my failing to get around to putting the scripts in the base module and erf). There was a full online explaination of D20 Modern at the Wizards of the Coast site but it appears to be non-functional, however this one https://www.rpgcrossing.com/srd/Modern/srdhome.html appears to emulate it.

But if D20 Modern is too far away from DnD for you then you may not want the class adaptations anyway, in which case if you use all the haks bar the class hak and put them in a standard module then you can have all the items and placeables but won't have the script changes for items and merchants. You could even remove the class hak from the base module with a few changes and that should work while keeping the other scripts, however you may need to extract the animations used for the guns and put them in a hak of your own.

One day I may get around to producing a version that has the class changes excluded but I don't have the time right now. You might try asking ABJECT_SELF as I believe he has done something similar.

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