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PRC rework project using 1.72+nwnx_patch

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Shadooow
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PRC rework project using 1.72+nwnx_patch

So far I have only Archmage done, but would like to add more.

However my idea is to release something like PRC Lite, only handful of classes, no workarounds hopefully, possibly translated into multiple languages, completely reworked, high quality.

I have some idea which classes should be added and which not, but there is also a question of interest from players/builders.

Are there any classes you wish to see in such project? Anything you think is a must?

 

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Taro94
I don't think there are any classes that are a must, but I think some prestige classes for casters would be nice, since they really only have pale master and RDD - the first sucks and the latter is more useful to melee characters anyway. Other than that, perhaps some dedicated non-arcane archer class would be useful, or perhaps some ranged version of weapon master, if there is such a class. Would give ranged weapons some usefulness.

Previously Grani

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Sabotin

I second the vote for caster progression prcs. If possible sorcerer-friendly ones (i.e. picking spells at levelup), but iirc that's difficult/impossible to do? (last I played with prc was years ago)

Other suggestions, as a player:

- Something for bards, but focused more on casting/bard songs (different effects etc.). Dirgesinger, Sublime Chord...

- Finesse focused fighter -> Duelist. Not many options here, but I guess ftr/rog can cover.

- A gish class for ftr/wiz combinations. RDD/PM end up with either miserable attack or casting and using the base classes becomes viable only at high/epic levels. Eldritch Knight comes to mind or one of those heavy armor mages, Spellsword and Suel Arcanamach.

 

What sources do you want to use for the classes, the PRC? Cause there's often differences between 3.0, 3.5, PRC and even vanilla NWN. And do you want to make new ones?

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DM Drake

Bowman would definitely be a must! So refreshing to be able to do a damager as Archer.

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GamerX51

One class I would like to see included is the Orc Warlord.... I have an Orc NPC villain in a module I'm currently writing that would fit this class so well. But if possible, I would like it's description altered to remove any references to Faerun.

If you're going through hell, then just keep going.

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halgroth

Are you able to implement this without using an eqiupped item like base_prc_skin to modify character stats? It would be great to not have to maintain a custom ILR solution.

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Shadooow
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If possible sorcerer-friendly ones (i.e. picking spells at levelup), but iirc that's difficult/impossible to do? (last I played with prc was years ago)

You are right, this was huge problem before. PRC however solved it by feat-spells workaround. Not practical but it granted the spells you should get when levelling arcane spellcasting PRC with sorcerer/bard.

Nwnx_patch allows to do this in better way. While I haven't found a way to show the spell selection when levelling up in PM/custom arcane spellcasting PrC, next time player takes a level in bard/sorcerer/or custom base arcane spelcaster, he will be able to select known spells for levels he gained by PM/custom PrC and those spells will normally appear in radialmenu/spellbook.

 

What sources do you want to use for the classes, the PRC? Cause there's often differences between 3.0, 3.5, PRC and even vanilla NWN. And do you want to make new ones?

 

PRC as base. But I will check DnD sources, 3.5 over 3.0. However it is safe to say that if some rule/feature isn't implemented by PRC then it is almost impossible to implement it properly anyway. I already checked 3.5 srd for Archmage for example and according to rules he should lose spell slot of specific level for taking certain high arcana feats. While I know how to implement that, nwnx_patch doesn't allows to implement that dynamically and adding that possibility is not very good idea either. That means I have to drop that rule or create new plugin specific to PRC which I don't plan right now.

 

One class I would like to see included is the Orc Warlord.... I have an Orc NPC villain in a module I'm currently writing that would fit this class so well. But if possible, I would like it's description altered to remove any references to Faerun.

 

If it is NPC you are doing, then you can make all Orc Warlord features inside custom AI see this tutorial (part with making custom AI). All this class has is basically summoning henchmens and that can be simulated easily with AI script, if needed I can send you a similar AI script for a special boss lich I made for PW Arkhalie that is constantly summoning 1 skeleton.

Also, I should note that AI doesn't always know how to use custom classes and custom feats properly. Even more so - usually passive/automatic feats are coded only for players (usually using OnLevelUp event which doesn't fire for npcs) which means that any resists creature should get from class should be granted to your creature manually anyway. And custom AI scriptsets like TonyK or Jasperre cannot use custom spell and custom feats at all. Vanilla/CPP AI can but it is highly dependant on correct 2da settings and the actuall feat scripts - which again doesn't need to be coded for NPCs at all.

Tl'dr: never rely on custom classes when creating NPCs, rather use vanilla classes and grant creature her benefits using itemproperties/vanilla feats instead. If creature needs to use certain custom feat, try if it works, if not you will have to workaround its effects inside custom AI script.

 

Are you able to implement this without using an eqiupped item like base_prc_skin to modify character stats? It would be great to not have to maintain a custom ILR solution.

 

Many of the nwnx_patch features were designed to help reworking PRC without workarounds. Many of the class features would now be doable without using skin. However, skin will still be needed for lesser class features such as damage resist bonuses, skill bonuses etc. While it is possible to code this all without skin, it would be hard to do that dynamically. Nwnx_patch is meant as a plugin that allows you to do things dynamically. For some things such as damage resist the possibility to grant it using nwnx_patch would cost too much resources to be worth it especially if the same effect can be done using skin.

What is your problem with skin exactly? You mentioned something with ILR? Community Patch 1.71 already set skin cost to 0 which should fix any ILR issues with skin (if yu merge baseitems.2da) and nwnx_patch allows to make custom ILR by using variable "CILR" int X on item and it will work just like regular ILR in way the item won't be equippable at all (so it will look more professional as you don't need to use unequip workarounds).

If you have your own custom skin, I can and I will code it in way it will use 1.69 skin variable (object oSkin=GetLocalObject(oCreature,"oX3_Skin"); see x3_inc_skin.nss).

 

 

I checked PRC and except Archmage I can release also:

Eldritch Knight
Mystic Theurghe
Hierophant
Champion of Bane
Harper Mage
Hospitaler
Shining Blade of Heironeous
Red Avenger

These would be easy to do without need to use skin and without ELC issues.

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Shadooow
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Hmm, it could actually be possible to code the class benefits using effects with DURATION_TYPE_INNATE - that should make those effects last through death automatically. Still I think skin is more transparent as removing innate effects can be problematic.

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Shadooow
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Other than that, perhaps some dedicated non-arcane archer class would be useful, or perhaps some ranged version of weapon master, if there is such a class. Would give ranged weapons some usefulness.

Bowman would definitely be a must! So refreshing to be able to do a damager as Archer.

I agree the selection of classes for ranged characters isn't very rich in vanilla and new PrC specialized on ranged weapons such as Peerless Archer would be definitely a nice to have, however it is not very hard to make ranged weapons usefull using features from community patch.

1.71 already allows to make bow/crossbow with damage bonus, enhancement bonus, keen and few negative itemproperties. And keen and regeneration to thrown weapons. All these itemproperties are fully functional. This allows to make some powerful weapons. For example on the PW Arkhalia I was admin we had crossbow with these stats:

+6 attack bonus
+12 fire damage
+6 positive damage
unlimited ammo +2
-----additional itemproperties added by ingame "crafting"----
keen
mighty +15
vorpal dc 14
unlimited ammo +5

40lvl Zen clerics were able to do as much damage as Bard/rdd with scimitar. Well at least in terms of raw damage as bards has the advantage of devastating critical of course. Part of the reason is that keen on crossbow makes with improved critical feat threat range 15-20 and that can concure bows easily - those will have 18-20 with keen.

Small side note: onhits on bow/crossbow are not functional. I had special treatment in module to copy such itemproperties from bow/crosbow/sling onto ammunition to make it work. Thus CPP doesn't enable builders to add onhits on bow/crossbow/sling.

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Valgav

Wait a second if Mystic Theurghe working that means you can progress both types of spells with one class? How it's done if you just have one spgn_* and spkn_* set?

 

Also I would love to see some good fighting class like Tempest(which should probably have every change in palce to make hsi bonus attacks, attack bonus work correctly(it would also be goo example for builders because using all those changes within attacks etc looks pretty intimidating at the beginning.

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Shadooow
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it works because columns ArcSpellLvlMod and DivSpellLvlMod this class is almost fully working in vanilla as well, nwnx_patch will only fix the problem with sorcerers not getting spells known. But wiz/cleric/mystic theurge works perfectly without nwnx.

Tempest can be done easily with nwnx_patch (as it allows modify number of attacks in both hands) but would require skin for 2weap defense feat, skin or applying effect as innate which requires nwnx. I think skin is better solution because it works without nwnx. Even though main class features wont work without nwnx_patch I still think skin is better option.

and right now I want to publish only PrCs that wont require skin.

EDIT: nvm changed my mind, will add Tempest, the ac bonus will be coded using innate effect. smiley

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halgroth

What is your problem with skin exactly? You mentioned something with ILR? Community Patch 1.71 already set skin cost to 0 which should fix any ILR issues with skin (if yu merge baseitems.2da) and nwnx_patch allows to make custom ILR by using variable "CILR" int X on item and it will work just like regular ILR in way the item won't be equippable at all (so it will look more professional as you don't need to use unequip workarounds).

I was not aware. That is great news! I will try to get this working on the server I maintain to get rid of the unequip workaround we're currently using.

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Shadooow
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I am working on this in paralel with nwnx_patch as project like this helps me realize flows in my custom spellcasting design or find bugs (im happy to report no bug has been found though)

Currently I took these classes from PRC and reworked them from scratch:

Archmage
Mystic Theurge
Harper Mage
Champion of Bane
Eldritch Knight

(100% done, not requiring usage of creature skin, works with ELC properly)

but before I release it I need to decide few things:

1) should I provide backwards compatibility with PRC?

the only reason I see for this would be to enable singleplayer players to move from module A with nwnx_patch+PRC Lite (thats how I call it) into module B with original PRC without issues.

However doing this would mean:
- each prestige class would have to be at exactly same line as in PRC
- each feat would have to be at exactly same line as in PRC
in practice:
- no longer possible to reorder classes order in levelup screen - in PRC base classes are mixed in between prestige classes and its hard to find them, my idea was to reserver lines 50-60 for base classes so they would appear at the top (relatively)
- lots and lots of padding lines in classes.2da and especially feat.2da

2) if not, what reserver for users should I grant?

classes are limited to 255 so there isn't much space for padding lines, I added archmage into line 50 which means 9 lines for user. Is it enough?

feats are limited to 65k something so this is not problem, currently started on line 2000 but this might not be enough if I should add also new general feats

3) should I add new general feats and new spells from PRC?

I have my own selection of suitable spells from PRC including: orb spells, polay ray, (greater) heroism, mordekainens magnificient mansion, dimensional door, improved mage armor, baleful polymorph and few more

My selection of general feats consist of: two weapon defense 1-3, die hard, instant rage, extended rage, epic divine shield, epic divine might, practiced spellcaster, (epic) divine resistance, (epic) divine cleansing, (epic) divine vigor and few more

4) PnP content?

I have selection of custom spells from d20srd.org source: call lightning storm, fire seeds, whirlwind, (greater) shout, break enchantment, mass spells (ability buffs, healing spells), mass drown, mass contagion

However this content makes sense only with changes to the vanilla spells (no point casting mass cure critical wounds if Heal on same level heals full hps instead of 10*lvl(cap 150) per DnD).

This needs to be decided before to plan the 2da lines used/reserved properly.

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Sabotin

1) Not needed imo, I'd make a new char anyways.

2) Not a builder, so no clue.

3) I'd like to see that, if they're not too exotic. And some sound like they may break stuff. Dimensional door could jump over important triggers or Mansion could avoid limited resting?

4) I think it's fine even if the old stuff is not changed, to preserve backwards compatibility if nothing else. If stuff doesn't make sense then simply no need to add it. Healing Circle is essentially the same as CLW, Mass, so you can skip that one for example. Also CCW, Mass is 7th lvl AoE, Heal is 6th single target so you can't really compare those :P . We could talk about all the stuff that's (nigh) useless in NWN, but I think it's fine if it's just diluted insted of removed/changed.

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Shadooow
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3) Dimensional door could jump over important triggers or Mansion could avoid limited resting?

Yes these spells has drawbacks, however it is always up to builder if he enables them. From player's perspective I see no problem with these spells. If you as player consider these spells to be cheating then don't use them. smiley

IIRC my version of dimensional doors is just a point click teleport. Unlike PRC it doesn't allow to teleport over walls just where player see and can click. Less powerfull, but easier to implement and balance.

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