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A Dance with Spies Developer Zone
Submitted by:
Submitted by prwo on 2013-08-20 11:13.
Last modified:
2020-01-03 02:54
This is the Developer's Zone for the A Dance with Spies project.
It is intended for developers, contributors and testers to download intermediate releases and discuss new features, bugs etc. freely without spoiling them to the gamers.
The files published here are all unfinished business, contain debugging information and are not intended for regular game play. The files for regular game play are released on the A Dance With Spies project page.
Before you start, please take heed of the following documents in the *_src.zip bundle files:
- BASE\Checklist.txt = the current list of open TODOs for the next release and implemented features
- BASE\txt\Frequently Asked Questions for Contributors.txt
- BASE\txt\Writing Guidelines.txt
- BASE\txt\Instructions for Testers.txt
As for the naming of the files:
- stable = a release suitable for continuous gameplay. Should be bug-free, if there is such a thing. That's definitely for gaming.
- pre-release = should be stable, but hasn't been out for long. After a while without anyone finding bugs the pre-release will become stable. That's for gaming.
- beta = the version for testing and bugfixing. Features are complete, but need to be tested for bugs in their various variants and options. That's for end to end testing.
- alpha = a first draft for specific testing. All features have been completed, but may still need fine-tuning, fleshing and bugfixing. That's for component testing.
- dev(elopment) = unfinished business for development purposes only. Scrips may be broken. Texts may be incomplete. Work in progress. That's for developing.
Files:
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
 a_dance_with_spies_v108_stable_2014-06-29_src.zip (483) | 10.52 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v109_stable_2014-12-01_src.zip (470) | 11.52 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v110_stable_2015-12-20_src.zip (475) | 12.6 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v111_stable_2016-08-14_src.zip (390) | 13.15 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v112_stable_2017-03-19_src.zip (574) | 13.86 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v113_pre-release_2018-10-07_src.zip (230) | 15.23 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v113_pre-release_2018-10-07_backport169.zip (305) | 10.96 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v113_stable_2019-01-05_src.zip (154) | 15.2 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v113_stable_2019-01-05_backport169.zip (339) | 10.97 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v114_pre-release_2019-12-14_backport169.zip (28) | 11.4 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v114_pre-release_2019-12-14_src.zip (71) | 15.8 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v114_pre-release_2020-01-03_backport169.zip (37) | 11.4 MB |
| a_dance_with_spies_v114_pre-release_2020-01-03_src.zip (44) | 15.91 MB |
> Let me know if you don't want these one at a time and I will simply collect them and send them to you all at once. This includes suggestions for possible plot additions.
Try to bundle them, if possible.
But if you encounter a serious blocker feel free to post it immediately.
However, v110 is in development stage. There are probably a lot of bugs in it. Better safe the effort and concentrate on alpha.
There was supposed to be an ambush at Fairside Road after lighting the fire and resting but it gave an error message.
debug: createBanditAttack
Assertion failed: object is invalid. FSRD_Bandit1
Assertion failed: object is invalid. FSRD_Bandit2
FIXED. Was a missing dialog link. Will be fixed in the next update.
Will there be more to Bull? His name and the presence of Kate cuckolding seems like the perfect recipe for a relationship between the two.
I just love the aspect of the relationship between Kate and the PC. It's surprising how few games have a husband-wife relationship aspect.
I like to play with anti-cliches.
Yes, by appearance Bull is suitable for the muscular, dominant black-bull in a cuckold scenario, BUT that's not how I anticipated his character. He is the only one in an intact, true-love, monogamous relationship with his girlfriend. He doesn't talk much about his relationship (probably that's the secret why it is working) and doesn't have too much interest in sex (a precondition for long lasting monogamous relationships).
Any estimate on when the alpha of v110 will be out?
Still finishing the last few dialogs and scripts. Then it will go alpha in about one/two weeks (I hope).
110 Alpha is out!
Alpha means that development is finished, but there may still be bug, rough corners that have to be smoothed, etc.
What's new?
If you want to help testing, please do the following:
Thank you for your help.
1st playthrough, Kate didn't spawn next to the bed during the intro.
Reloaded, no fix.
Deleted save.
2nd playthrough, Kate still didn't spawn.
3rd playthrough, Kate spawned just normally.
Didn't edit any game files, used the same fresh pregenerated character each time.
Haven't been able to reproduce the issue, did the same thing each time.
Dunno what causes it, but you might want to look into it.
Never had that problem before. Anyone else?
Kate is spawned at the same time the PC is transported to the room, after the PC jumps into the drainage. I've changed that so that Kate is spaned before the cut scene begins so there should be plenty of time for her to take seat now.
If it happens again, please use Debug Stone > Teleport > To NPC > Kate and tell me where she is.
Hey! First off, I just want to say that I love the mod, and it's awesome that you're keeping it updated. I remember playing it way back when you uploaded the very first version to the Vault, but then my computer with NWN on it broke and I kind of forgot about ADWS. When I finally reinstalled NWN a few months ago, I downloaded it and played it again and was amazed by all of the new content. It still hurts that Valine abandoned modding, but you're doing a great job of filling the ADWR-shaped hole in my heart.
Anyway, I'm liking the new stuff I've come across in 110 so far, but I have encountered a pretty annoying bug. All of the special one-off sequences fire properly, but whenever I sleep in the bed at the flat and start having normal sexy times with Kate, the conversation breaks and I'm just left in darkness. It happens right at the beginning every time, when things are about to initiate and the only dialogue option is [Continue].
Thanks!
> Anyway, I'm liking the new stuff I've come across in 110 so far, but I have encountered a pretty annoying bug. All of the special one-off sequences fire properly, but whenever I sleep in the bed at the flat and start having normal sexy times with Kate, the conversation breaks and I'm just left in darkness. It happens right at the beginning every time, when things are about to initiate and the only dialogue option is [Continue].
FIXED. Was a typo in the dialog forwarding. I've uploaded a new version.
Not sure what the exact line is but for me, I'm using SublimeText2 and on line 763 of flat_bed_sex.dlg there's an unrecognized token because of capitalization. If you search 'that was really nice' you should be able to find it.
FIXED. And it was line 763 :)
Was stuck at Fairside Road after killing all bandits at the farm and bringing Taris with me. Camped and killed two more bandits but, additionally, when the wolf attack came up in reloads they didn't spawn in, and while Sharna and Imoen join the icons they are not drawn with the rest of the party, Kane, Bull and Melissa. The qfsb_state was still on 4 so the transition would not send us back to the Mayor. We killed the bandit chief last during the first run but killed them again in another order and got the "That's the last one" message ok but still no exit at Fairside Road. I visit the farm house first then the shed, doors first time and windows next.
> while Sharna and Imoen join the icons they are not drawn with the rest of the party
FIXED. They were joined, but not teleported to the location.
> the transition would not send us back to the Mayor.
FIXED. The reason was that the state change wasn't correctly evaluated when you kill everyone first and then reunite with the team.
Finished up and before saying anything else, I want to say how much I like the added flat bedroom activity with Kate since I'm a fan of hers. I had seen some of the conversations in v109, so I thought I knew how the Dhorn invasion would launch, but after using the debug stone it didn't seem to start. Going to find the bodies got activity started but would not advance properly to the barricades or final battle after having made a mess of the variables. I had not even explored the outer docks at all before the invasion, since they were so battle ready when I snuck in in v109. For next time, what should the PC do after using the stone to start the invasion?
Generally speaking the Debug Stone just prepares the game so that the desired episode/quest/chapter can be played from the scratch. It sets all necessary game variables to debug the desired episode and that episode only. Since there are so many possible ways you can play your game up to the desired episode it is impossible for the Debug Stone to configure it so that the game can be carried on after that episode has been played.
Simply put: Jump to an episode with Debug Stone > Quest > ... Go through that episode and finish that quest. Stop here. You can't play further than the quest you jumped into. Everything around and beside it will be a mess.
Only the Chapter functions are stable in a sense that they allow to take shortcuts to certain chapters. There you can play on.
In v110 you can go to the outer docks before the invasion. It is a normal area.
You can start the invasion with Debug Stone > Quests > Khondir Invasion > dbg_qki_start. Enter the flat and go straight to bed. Sleep and then sleep again. The first sleep is just to clear the undergoing scenario and the second one will start the invasion.
Got it, only slept once before exploring, in part because the clock was set in the daytime when first hit debug, I remained unsure of what to do next. You have my thanks once again for an awesome module.
>>
Invasion started just fine once I slept in the flat 3 times, first sexy night didn't count? Progressed just fine up to the barricades mission, displayed barricades=false at the end of a server line when the outer docks area loaded, but no barricades or Dhorn. I have only gotten the barricades to load properly once by debug stone and that time I was without any explosives, possible clue. Other times by debug stone the barricades and Dhorn are not there and a pair of TOO MANY INSTRUCTIONS messages from the server show.
The invasion scripts were flawed.
I played it through from dbg_qki_start and fixed several of them. Should work now.
Pretty nice this new version. I'm in chapter 3 and yet to run into a bug :)
Btw are there plans in this version to include Taris romance or at least some new flirts/sex scenes or will it have to wait for later? Same about explaining in further detail the PC dreams.
Not in this version. I've just finished running through this version and fixing all bugs I noticed. Should be clean now.
The next version will contain more character development.
Whats the difference between the Dec 9 version and the Nov 28 version? The checklist looks the same
Bugfixes.
Any idea when a new version would be up? Looking very forward to the suggested ToDO ideas that will be implemented in the future.
> Any idea when a new version would be up?
Unfortunately not ;)
Hello,
I think I have run into a bug with the stable v110.
For some reason my relation with Kate doesn't improve. The value of PARAM_Rel_Kate stays at 0 even though I get those increase messages.
EDIT: I am a bit confused by the way you store relation value. What are the variables for relationship and how can I get them? PARAM_Rel_Kate is a string that stores... "rel_kate". The whole rel script kind of goes out of my coding abilities and got me lost.
PARAM_Rel_Kate is a constant, a placeholder for the actual variable name.
The actual flat variable's name on the PC object is "rel_kate".
Use the script rel_kte_inc_1 to increase your relationship level with Kate by 1.0.
Or use DebugStone > Scenarios... > Relationships
Bug
I found a bug, for some reason the game acts like i whored Taria out witch i dint, she gets pregnant the father unknown event chat and it is sayed she goes with the other 2 to the docks, that is wierd i tried to roll back some saves but i dint work, gone direcly home rolled days untill the how "lust come to be" event and still says that trina goes to docks. The only thing I think might have caused this is that i went to the tavern with the thugs at the docks with Bull Kane and Mellissa picked some random sum and got an error message early into the game while checking the city.
Can someone tell me how i can manipulate save or triggers to fix this or just post some saves? It really messes up my game and i dont want to start from 0 and this might happen again even if i do, it really messes up immersion.
Suggestions
I dint finish the mod or know it insideout, but after losing the gamecards in the cult entrance, the ones pass time, i cant find other ones and it is really inconviniant, is there a shop that sells them? If not there should be.
You could add an npc that gives dirty quests like assasination and such, a chain of quests making a optional substory culminaiting in you getting arrested, betrayed and killed by the npc, or you killing him, etc.
I liked the stalker idea, Alan could also find himself in that situation, one of the 3 kiddnaped school girls he saved could fit maybe? Figuring out his house broken into, feeling someone trailing him, but doesnt chatch who, that somebody has been asking questions about him, as a start.
I just played up to going to find the princess as a Dorhn( or watever its spelled) lord, but the caracter up to this point never could express the desire to retire from the dangerous field of work he is in. I get that its a hard thing to do that could throw the whole story into the air is inpractical, but maybe planning to retire, set some funds for a rainy day, bay a house in a diffrent city, a small ship, buissness, preparing a way out if the city falls to a invasion is realistic and not that gamebreaking.
Kate and Alan dont have children even after 8 years of marriage it should come up at least in a few conversation, i dont know if it comes up after Taria has a child but it shouldn't take that long for it to at least get some more speculation on it, in the case of Kane and Kates friend (Lisa?) its pretty much made clear why.
The guvernator, after the cult quest when you find that his doughter is dead and him running out of the city, he could cause you some trouble blame you for her death send some guys to kill you or Kate in revange.
Sorry for any misstakes in grammmar.
Bug:
I'd say that this is because the dialog path of the pregnancy scenario has not been adapted to the paths a PC can chose in the last versions. I haven't looked into it deeply, but I'd say that this is something that needs yet to be implemented, so there is no quick workaround. I've added it to the checklist.
Suggestions:
GameCards: You can reacquire all your stuff from the cult after it is destroyed. It's in one of the boxes in the store room in the Cult Entrance left of where Rent used to sit.
I've added the Card Game to the Administration Store, the Supplies Store in Streets, the Healer in ECG, the Dhorn Supplies Store and some Betancuria Stores (Rodor's Shop, Zacho's).
Retirement: I think of it more as an alternative ending. Like jump on to the next ship, leaving everything behind, sailing the world and then living out the rest of the life on a small island as a hermit. Maybe hearing some rumors on how things proceed in the homeland. End of Game.
It's like in ADWR where you could leave everything behind too at one point.
Children: If a marriage doesn't really work, like Kate and PC's, it is no wonder that there are no children. But true, that should be mentioned somewhere.
Hello,
After playing the mod I decided it really deserves feedback and here I am. This will be a very long post and I hope you stay with me till the end. I will start with purely mechanical stuff. I also have a lot of questions, mainly about the future development of the NPCs.
Game mechanics
Introduction: I really liked how you did the introduction of the player to his companions and the basics of the surroundings. It felt very smooth and informative.
Intermissions: Those are a great idea! I think I spend half my time just fishing for a new one and trying to progress some of them further. What worries me is that as they increase in number it will be harder and harder to get something you want specifically. For example, I never got the scene where Kate and Sharna are together (I received one with Sharna, Imoen and Kate later but I am really under the impression these are different).
XP distribution: I felt it to be a bit disproportional. I had few quests in the middle of the game which awarded 2000 XP each and a lot of the end game quests were giving just 500xp. On my first play-through I didn’t know I had to use Eavesdrop during intermissions and missed perhaps half a level if not more of experience. This might look like small number, but it was enough to make a big difference. Second time, the game felt much easier (not like it was hard to begin with).
Zone transition dialogues: I really liked those. They help a lot with the boring walking in the large zones. I would make a suggestion to improve it even more. Perhaps use the street signs to pop that menu as well?
Skills: I actually felt that most of my skills were pretty useless. Except disarm/unlock/search/move/hide/discipline the rest saw very sporadic use. I think I had more STR checks than bluff/intimidate/persuade. Another thing that rubbed me the wrong way was how weak the PC actually is. Everyone else is always 4lvls ahead of him. From pure game point of view, if I have Imuen with me all the time she can do everything I can do but only better since she is also pure Rogue but higher lvl. I will get to this more when I talk about the plot. Discipline checks were irritating me a lot. You progress the skill so slow as pure rogue that to see some of the scene's improved continuation you need to level up twice. If I replay the mod I will definitely pick Skill Focus on it from the very start. I had an issue with getting seen in stealth quite often. I might have been very unlucky with rolls or something but I didn't felt like a "stealth master" at all without the OP cloak. I think getting caught in stealth was very rare in ADWR, are you making MS/Hide checks more often or is it purely game dependent?
Quest complexity: I will be honest, if I didn't use the walkthrough I wouldn't have finished the module. The solutions to some quests are logical, but the actual approach to solving them isn't obvious at all (Arresting Trent is perfect example for this in my opinion). I think you should find better balance between small enough breadcrumbs (like the girl putting the key in her pocket) to point the player in the right direction but remain hidden enough. Is the walkthrough up to date? I get the feeling it isn't (or it definitely doesn’t cover everything).
Bugs:
Sharna didn’t equip rags after we received them from the farmer.
Melissa triggered the “This must be the missing prostitutes” dialog in front of Rent’s corpse. Talking with her again, started the correct dialogue.
I also noticed that you are using some sequence script for conversation. I think if you start a new convo it breaks an existing chain. Had an issue where I and Kate spied on Imoen and Sharna in the bathroom. After that Kate runs into the bedroom, I clicked on the bathroom door again and then the chain didn’t continue when I talked with Kate. I doubt this is fixable easily or if there is even need for it, just mentioning it.
During sex – Kate asks the PC to “do the work this time” -> being gentle -> 3x-> “Thanks for being so sweet <UNRECOGNISED TOKEN>lt2”
Vico talks to Imoen even though they haven’t met before (I didn’t got caught by the Family).
Plot:
Linking with ADWR
I think you managed to link the ADWR events with your own mod very well. The chase scene in the castle was great! It made me feel like I was there for real. It also made me a bit nostalgic and sad that Valine never finished the mods. I should say that the atmosphere of ADWR was definitely felt. On my second play-through I took Taris to Betancuria. You managed to add a reason to hate Arto which felt very authentic to ADWR.
The story as a whole
The plot is interesting and engaging, but there is a big BUT for me. With “Where is Kate?” and “Invasion” quests I felt really in the dark about the Temple, their plans and how that includes Kate. As a player I felt totally in the dark and just went through the quest. What is happening is obvious, but why? Not so much. Who are “our enemies” that Kate talks about? The second time I went through the mod I realized that maybe your idea was to put the PC in Kate’s position while he is out on a mission – feeling alone without knowing what’s happening with your spouse. If that was your idea, then it is great, but it still leaves a lot of questions and it left me with sore taste at the end of the current version of the mod.
Sharna
I really liked Sharna from the very first convo with her. I like nerdy girls IRL and she fits that description a lot. I was expecting her to be a romance option though, which disappointed me a lot when that turn out not to be the case and as I see from the comments it isn’t planned as a future option either. Also the slave thing is dropped immediately after you get her home but she chooses Kate to be her mistress. I just think that who owns the house isn’t a strong enough reason for that.
Imoen
From all the comments so far, Imoen gets a lot of flak. I agree with most of it but I also understand that you wanted and needed a way to link ADWS with ADWR and that wasn’t easy at all. I can live with that. My main grudge with her is that she is manipulating everyone and you can’t do anything about it. Perhaps the problem is that you don’t really have many conversations with her to understand her better or it is intentional and we will just have to wait for future versions to see more of the story unfold. Generally she just gives me a bad vibe so far and I don’t see her as a benevolent character, even though she is friendly and saves the day on few occasions. She just seems focused on her own agenda and doesn’t really care much about anyone else. Also we don’t really see much about the relation between her and Sharna. I don’t see anything connecting them besides sex and view on how people should express their lust. Also I got a question about Imoen’s portrait. Why is she depicted pregnant there? I guess we will find out in later version but it got me curious.
Taris
Taris is nice and sweet, but really underdeveloped so far. On my second play-through, I took her to Betancuria with me and that second wife thing really made her look somewhere between very desperate girl and overly attached girlfriend. She really appears sweet and innocent, but so far she lacks character. You have said it yourself that she needs more work and I am looking forward to see how her relationship with the PC will unfold in next version. I got one question regarding Taris. Does it count as whoring her if I stop the foreman having sex with her or if I send her home before we enter the warehouse?
Kate
I think Kate will be the thing I will talk most about. I really like her but she pisses me off a lot. I think this also makes her the most realistic character as well. Her romance can go in many directions which for me is quite innovative. Usually the PC has a choice between established characters with different personalities. So far the PC has small influence on her which is something that will only increase as the mod’s development progresses.
Kate though creates one problem for the mod. She is your wife, and if you want to seek other romance it goes against her. I don’t know how you are planning to wrap up the mod (or at least the romances) but I don’t think Kate deservers it (she nurses you back to life and obviously cares for you a lot, even with all her flaws). Going into a polyamorous relationship might look like an option, but I don’t really know. I agree though, that as she might love the PC and Lisa at the same time, so the PC can love Kate and Taris at the same time if that makes sense.
Also I am not sure you are handling the adultery properly. I think there should be distinction between cheating with a known NPC (Sharna, Imoen, Taris) compared to cheating with a prostitute for example. Also getting fucked by the orcs apparently counts as infidelity which I think is wrong. True that, I as a player might avoid it, but the PC is raped. I also consider those infidelities to be different. For example, sleeping with a prostitute is purely physical act. Sleeping with Taris could be just that but it can be emotional (it is for Taris for sure). Those correspond to the two things Kate can do at the same time – emotional with Lisa or physical with the unknown sailor. I understand that you might want to keep it simple, but wanted to share my thoughts about it. It is indeed a complicated matter.
What really is the relationship between Lisa and Kate? The dialogue when you confront her left me a bit confused. Kate’s lines in that conversation were quite unpleasant to say the least. She loves the PC as “a wife should love her husband”. This one particularly left me in the dark. Considering you don’t have any checks for the relationship status between you too in that convo and then “she will continue to fulfill her conjugal duties”. It left me with the feeling she loves Lisa more than she loves the PC. Although the last line “this doesn’t change our marriage” also leads me to believe that the conversation is up to interpretation depending on the PC’s current relation with Kate. It feels a bit too ambiguous and I am not able to pick Kate’s feelings from it. Adding variation to it that depends on your relation with her might help clear it up quite a lot.
Same goes for the end of Kate’s ring quest. It felt a bit underwhelming, considering it has a lot of symbolic meaning behind it. This is the only quest where Kate asks you for something for her specifically. You also go through 1/3 of the game chasing that ring. Comparable in length is only the “Find the princess” quest.
A lot of Kate’s expansion seems to be focused on the cuckolding so far. This isn’t really my cup of tea because 99% of the stories I have read on this subject have been variation of the “wimp husband, hotwife, no sex between them anymore, bulls, divorce or utter humiliation”. As you said you don’t like clichés, but from what I saw in the toolset (I haven’t played the cuckold, just checked some of the convos in the toolset) it is going in that direction. This on itself isn’t bad, I see that you are planning about swinging option which is something I find more appealing. I just hope that there will be some content strictly for faithful husband that’s in love with his wife. I am saying it explicitly because there is content at the moment which can be considered such, but it depends on your relation with her and isn’t exclusive.
The sex between you and Kate is also a bit underwhelming. She is always the one that decides what you are going to do. The second homecoming scene was a breath of fresh air here. I think as your relationship progresses she should be more trusting and leave the initiative to you more often. At the moment the way the sex scenes play out it feels like she cares mostly for her own pleasure – rides you till she cums then depending on weather you did or not you have the option to do more. She comes as a bit selfish during the stock sex scenes compared to the custom ones.
As I am talking about the sex scenes, why not add more cuddling? For example she doesn’t want to initiate sex tonight but comes and cuddles you in bed. It will show more emotions from her.
Now a bit about Mistress Kate. This one is a bit confusing to trigger. What is needed for it to happen? On my first play-through I received it after I completed the main quests, but as it will explain why everyone calls her mistress, I felt it should have triggered earlier. I am also wondering how you perceive Kate to be, is she naturally dominant? I am wondering because she also displayed submissive streak in some scenes as well. So far it seems there is content related to that “mistress” thing only for cuckold path. Is it going to be path of its own which can cross-over to other relationships or it will be strictly related to cuckolding?
There is one thing in particularly that I disliked in the way this was introduced. Kate acts very confidently that you will go with it. You as a player have the choice to decline it, but it shows her attitude toward the PC. As I asked you weather Kate is naturally inclined to be a domme or not, I am not sure if this is intentional or not, but on many occasions I felt that Kate intentionally doesn’t talk with the PC about what she is feeling (or it just isn’t developed). The conversation in which you can encourage her to sleep with other men is good example how I think the mistress thing should be introduced as well. As you are working on improving the interaction between Kate and the PC for the next release (or future, it is in the TODO list), I will not bash on this. I will just add that when I shared with her everything I can about what I was doing and she didn’t reciprocate until confronted about it. She has A LOT of secrets she keeps from the PC (as I said I felt totally lost after second homecoming).
There was also one thing that annoyed me a lot in several conversations with Kate. She sometimes belittles the PC verbally and if this is supposed to be just teasing, it fails to deliver it for me.
After I saved the girls, Kate mentions special reward. Is there anything to it or it isn’t developed or it just refers to regular sex tonight?
PC
After my first play-through I was under the impression that the PC is a wimp (both sexually and as a character). After my second one, not so much, but I still think he needs a bit more backbone. From your description I know that the story isn’t revolving around him and I am fine with that. What the PC does is heroic to some extend and Kate tries to give him credit for it (the harbor chain convo with Imoen for example), but it doesn’t echo strong enough to reach Imoen and all the game’s focus goes into the Temple and how actions can be used to improve its standing in society. Also, the PC is quite clueless about what is happening in his own house (it might be Kate’s house, but they are a couple, it’s their house). Imoen conspires with Sharna and drags Kate into this Temple of Oi thing and the PC still remains so much in the dark. The intermissions you see fail to show how much Kate is actually involved in it. It might be intentional and if it is so I hope in the last chapter to see the reasoning besides just shock, which I felt after second homecoming. I don’t see any reason why Kate or Imoen can’t trust the PC with more information about what is going on. If the idea is that the PC should find this information on its own, then so be it but it feels as if you are not really there, you just observer what is going on and as of now, you don’t see the whole picture.
During my first play-through I also felt that the PC is burdened by his past but we don’t know anything about his past. Kate complains that she doesn’t believe the PC is faithful (even if he is) is one example of this. I guess the interactions between Kate and the PC so far are the main culprit here.
The rest:
There isn’t really much to say about the other characters. They don’t have much screen time so far to really comment on them. Maybe Melissa gets a bit more but I can’t build opinion yet. She seems much more grounded compared to the other females, similar to Taris, but that’s it.
Quest ideas:
Buy jewelry for a love interest. Depending on style it might push stuff toward certain type of relationship. For example choker for Kate might influence her submissive side.
Get more involved in the household – something similar to the way the flowers work, buying groceries or some wine for example.
Final thoughts:
I really enjoyed the module but my first play-through wasn’t as good as I expected it. I will admit, I knew that the module existed for a long time but never had the time to try it. I was also expecting it to be much more complete which turn out to be not true and I had much higher expectations. After I spend some time reading the development history and the comments I am much happier with it, especially after I went through the mod again and I am sure it will only get better in the future.
Edit
I'll just add that I was messing around with the module in the toolset and noticed that there are a lot more dream sequences than what I experienced. The one where Kate and Lisa visit the temple kind of explains what mistress of the temple means. I am curious why it didn't appear on both my playthroughts. I played as faithful in one and cheated on the other but both times the dreams only played till Kate is worried she might be knocked up. People are commenting the Willard dream which is the next sequence and I presume it is related to cuckolding? What is needed to triger the last one?
As I mentioned Kate getting knocked up by some sailor, are you planning the possibility for her to be knocked up similarly to the way Taris is?
Hello tegli4
Thank you for your lengthy review. Writing it probably took you some time and I appreciate that.
If I responded to every question it would probably take me the whole night, so I'll respont to one after another at a time.
Imoen:
Yes, Imoen has a hidden agenda and yes, she is a twisted character that sends mixed signals.
If you get strange vibes from her this is exactly where I want you to be.
The PC will have to undergo quite some research to fully uncover her backstory.
I agree the relationship between Sharna and Imoen should be worked out more properly, grow into position.
Right now it's more the final stage that relationship and it's not visible how it came to that.
Well.. it took me a week I think. I was really quite upset after the first time I played through the game. Main reason was Kate and the way the conversation about her infidelity with Lisa and the sailor played out also the ring quest and the conversations at the end of the game before the final battle between her and the Dhorn champion. I didn't knew I had to use eavesdrop to learn stuff at the appartment so I missed A LOT of background. I felt totally out of the picture. I wrote 8 pages of stuff I had on my mind.
The I discovered the develpment page and read a lot.. I guess I kind of went too much into the mod. Played through it again and shrinked my initila 8 pages to 4 I think. Also added new stuff, rethinked a lot of my initial observations (but tried to keep the spirit of my first playthrough in the feedback).
I think I am starting ot have a new hobby by reviewing stuff and getting too much into it.
As you mentioned Imoen and Sharna's relation. I am curious, what are you going to do with Imoen/Sharna's relation score? What use will it have if the PC can't have romantic relationship with them? So far I haven't seen any use of them. Wild guess would be that you had plans for it but dropped it.
If you want you can post such long reviews as an articles as well :) (on the left bar* - contribute -> article)
*position may change depending on page style you use
I will consider it! At the moment I think this is the best place for it as it isn't really a review. It is more feedback in my mind. The mod is still in development. A lot of the things I wrote about are things that I think prwo is aware of. Some are in the plans for the next version. Once he responds to most of my feedback I might consider submitting an article. At the moment though, I doubt it will be fair to do that for an ongoing project without good understanding of the direction for the things that I wrote about.
> I think I am starting ot have a new hobby by reviewing stuff and getting too much into it.
Nice hobby.
> I am curious, what are you going to do with Imoen/Sharna's relation score?
Originally I intended to base some of their answers, and if it's only the NPC dialog greeting, on that.
Especially Imoen would talk more openly with the PC if they have a high rel level.
But I prioritized other features over it.
Also, this kind of small differentiations tend to require loads of conditional scrips.
That's probably why I refrained from it.
However, I introduced a new feature in dlgc and v111 that allows to elegantly deal with this kind of stuff in future.
Intermissions and eavesdropping are an essential part to understand what's going on.
They all have dependencies on preconditions before they are played.
And some are mutually exclusive. E.g. like the scene where Kate is ambushed in front of the temple: in the normal scenario she just delivers a box to the temple and is ambushed on her way out, whereas in the swinger scenario she retruns from having participated in an orgy.
If you want to see the other set of intermissions, you'd have to replay the game and make different choices that lead up to that intermission.
Of course it can happen that you suddenly see intermissions or dialog lines that don't fit to your choices... that's probably a bug then.
Also keep in mind that when you eavesdrop on two people talking to each other, they might reference situations that the PC has not witnessed, but still happened between them.
That is totally understandable. Everything you said is totally logical. To be honest, at the moment I think my opinoin on Intermissins/Eavesdropping has shifted a bit. The whole mod feels quite narrative and intermissions/eavesdropping contribute a lot to that. They are just a piece of information you can't act upon. Also at the moment I think around 1/4 of the mod I spend into waiting and exiting/entering the appartment. I hope with the planned update to Kate's conversations the player will be able to use that information in some way OR you might have some plan to use it as some big reveal in the end? As it stands now, they are just extra which also gives a lot of XP, but doesn't contribute to the outcome of anything as you can't take decisions based on that information. You can't intervene with Imoen messing with Kate's head for example. The only meaningful choice you are given is weather to allow Kate to play around or not.
> Also at the moment I think around 1/4 of the mod I spend into waiting and exiting/entering the appartment.
Yes, I do that too, but mostly for testing :)
I haven't figured out yet how to avoid this. How to make all this information reveal itself naturally... Any ideas?
> I hope with the planned update to Kate's conversations the player will be able to use that information in some way OR you might have some plan to use it as some big reveal in the end?
Some choices will be possible and the intermissions will give background information or present the results.
By the way, choice is not some binary dialog option (yes/no), but more a reaction to how the PC behaves.
As for Kate I am thinking about the following development paths:
* Will Kate stick to the PC or will she turn to Lisa?
If the rel level with Kate is low, she will turn to Lisa. If it is high enough she will stick to the PC.
* Will Kate fulfill her role as Mistress of Oi practically or just formally? = will Kate be faithful or not
Depends on the PC being faithful to her and on his encouragement.
Poor Imoen can't seem to draw many good reviews, but I have liked her words and deeds from the start, and even more so in ADWS. Of course using a BG2 portrait for her here does help, so too for a few other women in the story, but still! I can only hope Overhaul games has as good a treatment of Imoen in their BG1.5EE version with changing class and hair color.
I wouldn't go as far as to say I don't like her. Perhaps I didn't expressed myself properly. She definitely saved the party on few occasions, but as we don't know her agenda in this mod and a lot of stuff isn't clear yet, I can't say I like her either. Also her ominous statemets like "something historical happened now" when Kate created the militia of oi just adds to it. Too many unknowns for me to decide yet.
Also, I'll say it again, I haven't played BG1/2 so I have no idea how she is portraied there. I have the games in my steam acc but haven't gotten to them yet >.<.
Hi everyone,
Sorry for not writing, but I've been extremely busy in real life for the last couple of months.
Also, the email notification system doesn't seem to work anymore.
I had hoped that it would keep me informed if someone makes a new post, but it didn't.
Anyways, I'm back now and trying to follow-up.
Best regards,
prwo
Glad you're back prwo! Keep up the good work. I really appreciate the time and effort you've put in to making what is in my opinion the best module ever released on NWN.
Hi everyone,
Since there has been much interest in the characters, their lives, behavior, decision-making-process and such, I finally decided to release the character description and plot idea files with the next upload.
These are my templates, describing each (major) character's assets and background story.
Not all of them are in readable condition, often just personal notes or ideas - quickly assembled.
So, I'll have to do some editing before I upload.
Also, this needs some explanation essential to understanding the mindset behind this work.
When starting this project, I basically had three objectives and one major character in mind.
First: Allow the PC to explore and step-by-step discover the world (society) of Khondir.
Learn the rules it is built upon, get to know the people that live their daily lives in it.
The society of Khondir is different from ours - realistic, but shaped under different circumstances.
The original idea was to introduce the PC to it step by step, make him uncover certain aspects in time by evolving in the game.
The initial amnesia is the device plot to convey this experience to the player.
As the PC recovers from his amnesia ans slowly learns about this "new" world he is in - and so does the player with him.
Second: I wanted to implement the "experiencing an already known and interesting story (= ADWR) from a different angle".
The PC being a spy - whatever that implies - helps this cause:
chasing the ADWR princess, visiting all the known places, meeting all the known characters and experiencing how differently they behave from when interacting with the princess PC in ADWR.
Third: The focus obviously is placed on character interaction and dialog.
A feature that fascinated me first in Ultima VII-2, then BGII, KotoR and which was nicely implemented in ADWR.
Also the possibility of interacting with NPCs in a sexual/romantic way or doing dirty things like whoring my PC out.
ADWR shined especially in that regard.
Finally, guess who was the first character.
Best regards,
prwo
Wild guess would be that it is Kate. Considering that for me she appears as the most complex character, your contemplating the possibility to play with switching characters betweeh Kate and the current PC, I am pretty sure it is Kate. A lot of talk has been about Imoen, but she appears more like a plot device to solve problems than being a main chracter.
I'd say the first character you thought of was imoen. You obviously have a fondness for her (as do I) and it's a fondness that you've held onto since the early 2000's when BGII was released.
I'd also be torn between saying Kate though. She's the character that you've gone to great pains to provide an interesting, credible and varied relationship with.
Also, will you be playing the new Baldur's Gate expansion that's just been released?
Well, I'm going to be the oddball and say that it was Sharna.
It would fit with the whole amnesia character the PC has.
Thats very good point! From certain POV, Sharna and the PC are the same. We don't really know much about the PC besides that he has cheated on his wife in the past >.<.
Interesting. I probably would have gone with Kate at first. But you're right, Sharna makes sense here as well.
And thanks prwo for continuing to work on this outstanding mod! It has really become my favorite module now.
Imoen, definitely Imoen... Her character needs the most shedding of light into seeing as how old she is and how many adventures she has seen. And what made her to pursue the founding of the temple of Oi. Oh, and great to see you active again prwo. That means ADWS will continue to have expanding storylines!
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