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A Dance with Spies Developer Zone
Submitted by:
Submitted by prwo on 2013-08-20 11:13.
Last modified:
2020-12-26 12:06
This is the Developer's Zone for the A Dance with Spies project.
It is intended for developers, contributors and testers to download intermediate releases and discuss new features, bugs etc. freely without spoiling them to the gamers.
The files published here are all unfinished business, contain debugging information and are not intended for regular game play. The files for regular game play are released on the A Dance With Spies project page.
Before you start, please take heed of the following documents in the *_src.zip bundle files:
- BASE\Checklist.txt = the current list of open TODOs for the next release and implemented features
- BASE\txt\Frequently Asked Questions for Contributors.txt
- BASE\txt\Writing Guidelines.txt
- BASE\txt\Instructions for Testers.txt
As for the naming of the files:
- stable = a release suitable for continuous gameplay. Should be bug-free, if there is such a thing. That's definitely for gaming.
- pre-release = should be stable, but hasn't been out for long. After a while without anyone finding bugs the pre-release will become stable. That's for gaming.
- beta = the version for testing and bugfixing. Features are complete, but need to be tested for bugs in their various variants and options. That's for end to end testing.
- alpha = a first draft for specific testing. All features have been completed, but may still need fine-tuning, fleshing and bugfixing. That's for component testing.
- dev(elopment) = unfinished business for development purposes only. Scrips may be broken. Texts may be incomplete. Work in progress. That's for developing.
Files:
> I wonder why Female PCs are THAT popular? It wouldn't be strange if there was a 50/50 in the number of games that let play as male or female but such extreme popularity for female PCs while so small for male PCs...
> Are there so many female players here?
Maybe we should ask Anita Sarkeesian about that ;)
I think it's more about the way society differentiates between male and female sexuality rather than a matter of male/female gamer ratio.
I suppose there are more women playing text-based role playing games than men and thus more women will play mods, but that doesn't quite explain it.
If you have a male protagonist engaging in kinky or lustful sexual actions it's well, quite ordinary. Consider you have a lot of games/novels/movies/... that feature sexually potent male heroes already (James Bond, Casanova, ...).
But if you have a female protagonist doing the very same all of a sudden it's exciting and out-of-the-ordinary.
The same applies to authors. I believe women writing stories with sexual content recieve far more attention than men for the same reason. It is still considered unordinary for a woman to express her sexuality directly/openly, which makes such an occurrence even more interesting.
By the way, if you haven't noticed, I completely turned that principle around in the design of ADWS.
> Maybe girl on girl is considered as hotter than guy on girl?
That's a male fantasy I think. In mods with a female PC there is usually only one same sex love interest where there is a multitude of other-sex options.
What's more interesting is that in adult mods with a male protagonist there is usually no same sex love interest at all.
In ADWS Kane is intended to be the male love interest, but I never found the time to implement it and no one really requested it.
Yeah, there are plenty of games when the male protag is a pervert and how successful he is in his endeavors depands on what kind of a hero he is and what type of game he stars in. Generally few games allow the protag to go all out with the girl though with nudity and kinky scenes while still having a good and compelling story and the main chars being more developed than just sex maniacs.
Personally I think it would be cool about a male protagonist who does not think about sex all the time but gets the option of whether he wants to engage in sex after getting close to a specific chick or not. Not like as if the player feels that he loses if the sex does not happen. Rather, it is just another of the cute aspects in the game is simply well developed.
Also the option of making a relationship work AFTER the male PC and the heroine did hook up is particularly cool in my opinion. Getting a partner to fall for you is the easy part. It is to make such relationship work and prosper which is actually hard. That is why I found it interesting in this game how the PC is already married and can affect how his wife feels about him. Few games bother to focus on what happens in a relationship and just focus on "they lived happily ever after" which is cute but sorta naive.
I enjoy the psychological aspect of relationships that is why I kinda look forward to at least a potential Taris romance. How Kate would react to such a relationship, the feelings of potential guilt of both the PC and Taris, how to remain good friends with Kate after a break up, the reactions of other characters after they learn of that, etc. Kinda hope that there will be maybe some scene either romantic or sexual to foreshadow what may still come. I wonder what happened with TroubleAbroad, wasn't he planning to do something Taris related? Well, I'm counting on you prwo and waiting eagerly for version 1.10 ^^
Though I wouldn't mind seeing the PC also developing deeper bonds with other characters in this mod and not necessarily on a sexual level. It would be cool if the pasts of certain characters were explored a bit more with some extra sidequests to become best friend forever for some of them. Maybe a change of personalities even if their views were to change due to certain events that would make them question their view of the world or something? Hmmm....
A good game should cover all aspects of life. That includes, but is not limited to, sex, romance, love, intimacy, envy, hate, violence, death, crime, etc
When it comes to sex there seems to be some kind of bigotry. On one hand no one cares if the protagonist murders 1000 people in cold blood, "because he's a rogue", but if he whores around with just 10, oh that's going too far.
I understand that in commercial games you have the PG rating to consider, but even then you could brouch the issue of romance, intimacy, relationships and yet even sex sufficiently... but that's hardly ever done anywhere.
So, what inspired me about ADWR was that it incorporated that missing thing, sex and romance, and intertwined it seamlessly with the story - and most importantly doing so without taboos (remember that we have same-sex-copulations, rape, whoring, orgies and bestiality in ADWR).
And I tried to follow on that idea, but give it a more profound touch with the Kate-marriage part.
V1.10 will mostly focus on the main story ending and an Kate's character development, but not so much on Taris.
> True, there are already great female adult mods out there like A Dance With Rogues, Gladiatrix, or Demonheart, but very few for male. Only one I think. Wink and Kiss, the male version. But it ended after the first module. The creator is developing a sequel, focusing on the female PC. See what I mean?
I said I was having ideas about a sequel, not that I would actually do so.
Thinking is easier than doing.
If I would make something about Kate it would be like this.
I wouldn't make a sequel for ADWS either, but pack it all into one module.
The reason for Valine to split ADWR up was that it became unmanageable in the editor.
With modern equipment this is not so much of a problem.
> As I suggested before, there's a missed opportunity in developing the relationship with Kane.
Yes, that's my strongest regret.
I can't remember having ever seen an adult mod with a male-on-male relationship in it.
"Yes, that's my strongest regret.
I can't remember having ever seen an adult mod with a male-on-male relationship in it."
Well it would have been really fun if Kane had a crush on main character, and mainchar could also have scored with his wife. And it all would lead to consequences :D
Well, as a straight man I'm glad that as for now, Kane doesn't try to assault the PC with the weird gay stuff. As I recall he's one of PC's buddies from special forces and for me it's good as it is. He has already a wife who does both men and women, so at least he could stay straight.
I tolerate this stuff, but I personally think that there are many bisexual characters already, to remain immersion there also have to be pure straight characters.
Just my opinion,add the gay relationships if you like,as long as of course they are optional and can be easily avoided. Really, i can tolerate this, but I'm not going to like or approve it, so as long as there is choice to engage into this or not, it's fine with me.
As a gay man, I would definitely be excited by the addition of a coupling between Kane and the PC.
Nevertheless, it shouldn't be forced unto you. Nor should any of the other relationships.
In a setting like this module, in which the player's choices are most certainly important, having a relationship forced unto you would indicate bad writing and would directly contradict the way this module is played all throughout the rest of it.
However, Kane 'assaulting' the PC with "the weird gay stuff" (please specify) shouldn't be all that different from Sharna, Imoen, Kate (and even Taris) coming on to the PC. All of it is avoidable of course, however it's still thrown into your face regardless of whether you decide to engage in a relationship with them or not.
For the record, gay sex is already in the module. There are male whores and some NPC pairings that, if you decide to interact with them, describe male-on-male sex in about as much detail as the straight and lesbian encounters.
The only thing missing is indeed a relationship and if Kane is the chosen subject it'd be fairly tame, (outside the bedroom at least) Kane is afterall a very prudish man who avoids topics like sex and especially homosexuality. Imoen, Sharna and Taris are all introduced with a sex scene (fairside inn, dogpit and farm-rape) while Kane is introduced as a long-time partner. This is of course fairly similar to how Kate is introduced, and if you choose not to engage in a 'loving' relationship with her you can easily avoid all possible sex scenes between the PC and Kate. I image the relationship with Kane would be quite like that, perhaps a bit more taboo. Then again this module already covers rape, bestiality and under-age sex, so how much harm could a healthy relationship with another man do?
Regardless, these were just my two cents on the matter.
-Dov
There should be three romance options in ADWS:
* Kate, the wife
* Taris, the young, adoring girl
* Kane, the homosexual option
Originally, I developed Taris as a (real emotional) challenge to Kate's marriage, but there is more potential to that.
On the other side I do not know how to write a real homosexual relationship. Not a cliche descenting butt-buddy one.
Hmmm, how about writing a "Friendship" option with Kane where he and PC become best buddies?
Much better than the Romance option IMO. Hard to write gay options unless one knows two people in such a relationship and knows how it goes beyond stereotypical suppositions. I think that a true friendship between guys can be quite beautiful too. Seeing how Kane's wife reacts to that friendship could be interesting too...
The "romance your wife" part is certainly quite original and few games focus on how to keep an actual relationship and make it prosper. If I recall the next update will focus even more on expanding Kate possibilities, right?
And as for Taris I think she is an interesting option too. Since the flat belongs to Kate then either there should be an option to close their relationship in friendly terms with an implied move on with the new bride by the game end(even if we do not see it). Or maybe one of the houses in the game could be purchaseable so that the PC and Taris can move there? Well, as always looking forward to that romance even if its just a few flirts or one sex scene coming up^^
Friendship could be possible too, but it's not that original. I want to see one game where the gay romance option is not just a copy of a straight one or a parody.
Taris is the third corner of a love triangle between the PC, Kate and her. She sees Kate as a mother substitute and the PC as her rescuer. That's some interesting combination.
You know, I get a lot of feedback on this matter like this "a gay romance would be nice, but I would definitely not go for it" or "put gay sex in as long as I don't have to see it"
I wonder why?
What's interesting is that although you see rape and bestiality (which you will see in ADWR2 too by the way), no one seems to bother about it. There is a lesbian relationship in ADWR (with Pia), which is considered adorable and sexy - especially by men. If you describe two women licking each other off that's lustful and horny, but if two men do exactly the same it becomes repugnant and weird. I really wonder why?
Because to most heteorsexual guys girl on girl is hot while two guys not so much, as it seems to "taint" their masculinity somehow I guess. That said girls seem to enjoy the guy on guy part more than the girl on girl part. Also girls romance if often tender and sweet while many writers seem to find gay romance awkward and it becomes more like a parody than a romance.
As for bestiality it is so strange and rare in society that one may not be so bothered if looking at it as if were a literal alien. Most do not take it seriously and treat it like a joke anyway.
Regarding rape I think many hate it but some guys may find it hot in a weird fetish like way. I personally hate seeing the girl suffer as I find it hardly much of a turn on...rather the opposite. I do not like guys suffer either though. I think there should be some kind of happiness there rather than just endulging in the suffering of another person. Unless it is some kind of consensual kink or both of the partners are masochists but then it is no longer rape in its real form anyway.
Rape is often used as a shocker in an environment where normal violence is a commonplace thing. No one cares about stabbing, beheading, etc. anymore. If you sexualize violence it immediately becomes more cruel, more devastating and more immersive.
Regarding to your wondering why licking and kissing between two girls is okay, and the same thing between two men is weird for some people.
Well, I have right to see this as a distasteful thing, just as you have right to see this as something great or exciting. As I said eariler (or haven't done that yet ),I can tolerate gay relationships, but really respect that I don't have to agree with that and approve it.
To your question, my personal answer is simple. It's natural, if I like only girls, seeing two girls doing this, is not the best morally thing for me, but yes, I find this better than the same situation with two males, even just because there are girls, I can't do anything with that reaction.
My intention isn't to judge or something,I respect if someone has different preferences than me,but my opinion should be respected as well. So if I don't approve it (but tolerate),accept it and don't get offended because I don't think like you and that I have my "straight" opinion for that matter.
And to @Dov, if I used the words "assaulted" and "weird gay stuff" in the previous post, I'm sorry, I see that I said it in too harsh way, I didn't mean anything bad, and once again sorry for wrong chosen words.
Late to the party as I just found this mod today, so far I love it, but after the reading som of these comments I'm a little bummed at Kane not being option for the PC, would have loved that.
I loved AdwR, it was great, am also a fan of the BG games, so seeing events from this PoV is fun. =)
Prwo, kudoes for a great mod, can't wait to see what you'll change\add (thou am crossing my fingers for Kane =) ).
Ravyn
Sry for my english
Kane romance is on the list, but definitely not for v110.
I will start off by saying this was one of the most immersive NWN experiences I've ever had. I just wanted you to be aware of a possible bug I ran into. In the last part of the module when you are looking for the Countess on her hunting expidition, I made the mistake of identifying her as the Princess BEFORE I presented her with the terms (in my role as ambassador).
The end effect was that I cannot now present her with the terms and thus she never returns to the castle so I can conclude that quest. Of course - I can always re-load an older save and work my way back to this but I just wanted you to know this.
Thanks to all the contributors who keep producing top quality content for the best RPG gaming series ever created (NWN1).
How did you identify the Princess BEFORE presenting her with the terms?
The Princess should not appear in Delberg before the hunting party Deep in the Forest. And after the hunding dialog she'll be teleported to the castle feast. The castle feast dialog should always present the terms and only after that is done should you be able to identify her.
Hi prwo, long time no see.
I was looking at some of the latest additions and I was wondering about some stuff.
!Spoilers ahead!
-So the basic player character is Alan Kelten, yes?
-In one of dream sequences the following line appears: "Kate: (What's going on with me. I am a married woman. I didn't fuck with another man since Frank. And Frank was long time ago.) [Who's Frank?]"
-One of the Betancuria NPCs (and a teacher for one of the lessons in ADWR) is Frank Kelten, innkeep of the onethousand step inn.
Now I could just be drawing lines like a conspiracy theorist, however I still have to ask;
Is this the same Frank who was mentioned by Kate?
Is this Frank related to the PC?
Did Kate cheat on Alan with one of his relatives?
If so, did you plan this all the way back when you started this project?
Anyhow, if you did then kudos. If you didn't, it might be worth exploring in a future update. Might add some more substance to the Betancuria story arc and it fits in quite well seeing as how this 'Frank' is mentioned by Kate while the PC is in betancuria, where Frank Kelten the innkeep is located as well.
Just some food for thought,
-Dov
Hi Dov,
I chose the name Frank just of the top of my head. I wanted to insinuate an affair in the dream sequence. Kate has been the neglegted wife for years and since affairs are not an uncommon thing in Khondir, where marriage is often a formal one or a social necessity, so an affair would make sense.
After all these are sequences dreamt by the PC with his wife being all alone far away.
I am unaware that there is a Frank Kelten in Betancuria. Kelten is just one of the last names on NWN's random name list, so this is just a coincidence.
But as you say this has some potential. Maybe Frank Kelten is some distant relative, who moved to Betancuria to found an inn. And maybe Kate did have an affair with him back home before that.
Maybe Frank Kelten will recognize the PC in Betancuria or something and the PC has to avoid being uncoverd.
So, how is the next version progressing?
Any estimate when the alpha or beta version 1.10 will be out?
Just a bit curious how things are doing^^
I've just uploaded my last development build. I wasn't able to progress since January though.
Hi prwo. I'm finally getting round to adding some discipline checks. I've done one already but as I'm not 100% confident with the format can I send it to you and you can let me know if it's ok before I do anymore? If so is there a pkace I can find your email?
Your discipline check was pretty nice, but there is room for improvement.
As a rule of thumb a discipline check, or any check for that matter, should follow the following pattern:
: MyCheck. [A heavy stone blocks my way. It requires some strength to lift it.]
>> {Strength} [Lift the stone.]
... ?chk_str_10 {{Success}} [I put all my strength into it and manage to lift the stone.] ->
MyCheck_Lifted
... {{Failure}} [I put all my strength into it, but fail to lift the stone. I have to walk around it.] -> MyCheck_NotLifted
>> [Walk around it.]
... [There is no use in trying to lift it. I just walk around.] -> MyCheck_NotLifted
: MyCheck_Lifted
~ autoJoinLink=Next
. [After the stone is out of the way everyone praises my amazing strength.]
: MyCheck_NotLifted
~ autoJoinLink=Next
. [I hear everyone snigger behind my back because I didn't lift the stone.]
: Next
. [Next we move on to...]
Hey prwo you still doing fine man? It has been a while since you posted anything so I was wondering if you still work on this.
If you ever give up due to RL or something hopefully you will find some successor to continue the mod legcy ^^
I've been very busy with work and private life, so unfortunately there hasn't been any progress since January. I'm stuck in the middle of v110 right now.
Any help would be very much appreciated.
I can do the programming - that comes naturally for me - but what is need is texters.
If you need any help with text, whether it be writing entirely new content based on exisiting ideas, coming up with new ideas or turning little notes into full-length texts, I'm available.
Very well. I'll send you a PM.
I'd like to help out right now but I'm flooded with personal work for the next week or so. :/
Give me a call when you're free again. There's a lot of work to do.
Since January ? Yikes, that ain't good to hear. Anyway, good that you're back to the mod, i hope that now working on the version v110 will go as planned. I hope that besides adding Kane as a romance option,in the next versions there will be some progress with the straight romances, especially Taris. Could you tell what is planned for the v110 as for now ? Besides, good luck to you and that's great that the module ain't dead yet.
Good to see you're still out there, prwo!
Sorry that the "real world" is encroaching on your modding these days. Hope sometime soon some of those concerns will fade away and you can have more time to work on this terrific mod of yours. I also would like more of Taris. And maybe Melissa too....possibly more scenes with her featured. But of course this is your mod and please continue to develop it that way you envisioned it.
I am just glad to hear you are still going to be working on it. Thanks for the quick update and best of luck to you both in "real world" and in the modding as well! Take care.
V110 will basically be about the events that happen between returning from Delberg and going to Delberg a second time.
Taris and/or Kane romances require a lot of texting. Volunteers required to do that.
Oooh, looking forward to the new version, especially the Taris and Kane romances. I'd like to help but unfortunately, my English is not that good. But if you need help with some ideas, I'd be glad to help.
Also, there is one thing I want to ask. During the investigation of the missing daughter, usually, my PC went there again during the night to meet with the little sister at the kitchen, but now, I could get all the conversations (the kitchen ones), just by interrogating the little sister, when I visited the mayor mansion for the first time.
During the Castle Derberg invasion, when I come back for the second time, the wagon, which you clicked earlier, told you what happened between Lianna and the Prince Orc, still had the same explanation, if you click it again.
A Dance With Rogues has Arto Bentur as the main villain. A Dance With Spies is definitely missing something in the villain department. I think it would be great if you introduce someone as menacing as Arto to target the PC. Maybe someone who is the mastermind behind those two torturers, someone who torture or molest the PC that is so traumatic, that make him lose his memory in the first place.
FIXED. You can't break out of the govres_gov dialog now.
I have to ask: How did you talk to Terie?
You shouldn't be able to talk to her anytime except in the kitchen.
Only when you break the dialog of her interview she won't go back to her room - that's fixed now.
FIXED. The window doesn't appear anymore after the Delberg quest is done.
I don't think Arto is the main villain, but he is just one of the main villains. Depending on if you are able to forgive him or not, some might consider Vico a villain too. Or the gladiators.
What I find interesting about Arto's character is that from the Princess' point of view he is the bad guy, but from Dhorn's point of view he is probably a hero.
I respect your opinion, but I must disagree with the matter of villains. Not every bad guy has to have a mastermind behind. It's too predictable to know that bad guys are only henchmen, and that there's always someone greater than them, a "truly evil" man who gives them orders. People don't need to have a mastermind, to be bad and eager to hurt other people.
The case of two torturers who are included in both DwR and DwS is excellent as it is, they are just sick people who find a great joy in torturing people and making them suffer. They feel unlimited in hurting people cause even people who know about their practices, do nothing to stop them or interrupt them in any way. Giving them an evil/bad and ugly mastermind would be just making of their plot another cliche and predictible thing. The world of DwR and DwS is gritty,dark and brutal, and what is important, it isn't a world like every other fantasy universe with slashing with a sword +5 and doing heroic deeds all the time without getting dirty, hence many times it avoids obvious and exploited to the limits, solutions known from other fantasy universes.
At least Valine in DwR seemed to take inspirations from A Song of Ice and Fire, the characters of the two torturers remind a bit of Ramsay Snow, who is a walking evil and torturer, but he doesn't have any typical mastermind behind.
What makes the PC lose his memory and who makes his stay in the dungeon so traumatic ? The answer is simple, the tortures made by the two sick men who locked the PC in their dungeon. It's pretty simple that these two had been making the PC suffer that much and I'd say that when further in game you venture around the world, these two guys are something you could call personal villains, the people you want to get and take your revenge on, even though you know what happened to them if you played DwR.
so the latest version, it doesn't have new romance interactions in it?
No, it will contain a new episode of the story, but not involving romance.
Existing scenes will be improved or extended though.
Three quick questions and one request:
1) I have yet to find the Princess whore panties. I have been up and down the docks and have yet to trigger it. What am I missing?
2) In what chapter is Kate's panties?
3) In what chapter does the Temple of Oi get established, and if before being sent off the second time, why can't I find it?
The one request regards the hidden skills. Is there any way to find out how high they are? I know others have expounded upon Tarsis relationship, but
1) The dialog with Tarsis is very limited. If I have all these skills, why can't I use them on anyone other than Kate?
btw, have really enjoyed the module. Played it once years ago and tried the new version and either you really expanded it, or I never tried the various options available.
Thanks in advance for your attention to this.
That are actually 5 questions... or did I fail to notice the request?
Years ago, the story was more linear. A lot of things have been optionalized since and more side information has been added. Key to getting all out of it is to eavesdrop in the flat as many times as possible. Then the background stories will unfold.
Now I am stuck. In Orc Prison and Nalia keeps asking if I have found a way out. Only two options and they both say keep looking. I have been around the perimeter at least 3 times. How do I get out?
You need to reunite with your companions first. You find them in the barracks.
They are with me. I got attacked, so I went back and rested at the fire. My companions rejoined me there and now will not interact or give me any other option. I think I caused a bug when I rested at the fire trying to heal myself.
Thanks again for your quick responses.
The fact that they reunite at the fire tells me that you hven't reunited with them before. The fact that they don't interact after rejoining is strange.
After reuiniting, try to enter the Orc Prison. There should be a dialog about invisibility potions.
You need to bring them all to Nalia. Then the exit will appear in the north west corner of the prison.
Got past it. I just backed up and replayed it out saving more frequently and the game behaved normally. Oh, one time I replayed, the orcs in the prison attacked and Sharna died. I simply backed up and replayed it, but am curious what would have happened if I just continued? Does she simply resurrect?
Thanks for your attention. Am trying version 1.10 now. Noticed new area called Outer docks. Went into there in while still exploring the docks. It looks like this is a quest/mission. Is it supposed to be available from the very beginning?
You will need all henchmen before you can get Nalia to flee with you, but once you are fleeing, dead henchmen will be resurrected when you reach the Woods.
110 is still in development. I just uploaded it to have a backup and for some dialogs. It will most likely break if you try to play it, especially the new area Outer Docks.
110 will go alpha in the next weeks.
So how is the progress going on the 1.10 version?
It's coming. Still needs some fine-tuning.
Possible bug in v 1.10: While talking to governor, and asked to talk to daughter, Terie, after the dialogue to get her, she never appears.
Let me know if you don't want these one at a time and I will simply collect them and send them to you all at once.
This includes suggestions for possible plot additions.
I cannot restage that bug.
Do the other NPCs appear when you ask for them?
Save the game, walk into the governor's office, but don't talk to him, and execute the script "govres_sum_terie" (press ° and enter DebugMode 1; press ° again and enter dm_runscript govres_sum_terie).
Does she appear?
Execute "govres_dis_terie".
Terie should now disappar.
Now talk to the governor again and try to make her apper by conversation.
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